The Problem with American Craft

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by JackRWatkins, Nov 18, 2014.

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  1. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    Zero Spaten, Paulaner, or Hacker Pschorr Oktoberfest in my local shops this year. In their place about a half dozen to a dozen U.S. versions -- including, now, a number of local ones -- that are full of sweet caramel malt and generally either terribly heavy-handed or wholly mediocre in their execution. Similar things have happened for Koelsch, Alt, Pilsners, Bocks, etc., etc.
     
  2. yemenmocha

    yemenmocha Grand Pooh-Bah (4,116) Jun 18, 2002 Arizona
    Pooh-Bah

    Lambic, I always enjoy your opinions and dialogue. I don't think there's the worry you mention above regarding the exceptional ones going out of business. It is the consumer that is affected, and I consider my situation a classic example.

    There are new breweries distributed here in AZ such as Founders, Victory, Southern Tier, to name just a few examples. But you know what, they're actually hard to find at beer bars. There's so many taps from local places (many are quite average or below average) and that ideology has a major impact on what's on tap at beer bars across the valley here. So, it affects the experience many of us have. We can't drink the best of what is available in one's market unless one is very, very selective in where to go drink, or just give up and drink at home.
     
  3. FutureJack

    FutureJack Initiate (0) Oct 30, 2007 California


    Perhaps I could have stated my position better. I do buy what I like best. I'm in SoCal with access to a ton of great local beer. So I don't generally need to sacrifice anything to drink local and drink best. I realize that's not the case for everyone, and I won't buy subpar beer just because it's local. I just think the BA culture often overlooks good solid local fresh beer just because it may not be ultra-rare.
     
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  4. yemenmocha

    yemenmocha Grand Pooh-Bah (4,116) Jun 18, 2002 Arizona
    Pooh-Bah

    Exactly right.

    And the frustrating part is that people often admit that a rather long list of beers in their market is better than a given tap line that they see, but that tap line is a local beer and so they'd rather see that local beer on the line. I'm not kidding, it is now controversial to hold the view that people should drink what they think tastes better/best.
     
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  5. cavedave

    cavedave Grand Pooh-Bah (4,157) Mar 12, 2009 New York
    In Memoriam Pooh-Bah Trader

    I am speaking about distro also. You are, despite your protestations, and the fact you're doing much better now, late to the party. Check for yourself. Not as bad as some states, and plenty enough compared to just a few years ago, but my state, for instance, is on track to have 200 breweries, and our distribution is amazing. You will get there is my point, not to put Alabama down.

    www.seekabrew.com
     
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  6. Jirin

    Jirin Initiate (0) Apr 28, 2013 Massachusetts

    There certainly exist American craft breweries who just shove a ton of hops into their beer, but they are not at all representative of the whole.
     
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  7. yemenmocha

    yemenmocha Grand Pooh-Bah (4,116) Jun 18, 2002 Arizona
    Pooh-Bah

    Then I fully agree with you and would probably do a lot more of the local buying. Many metros, and obviously most smaller cities in the U.S. (there's so many!) don't have the amazing local breweries that you have.
     
  8. JackRWatkins

    JackRWatkins Maven (1,472) Nov 3, 2014 Georgia
    Trader

    I will agree that you have more breweries and distribute better and get more, we are late to the party as you say, but we get enough from all over to give anyone with the desire to have it a decent feel for beer in america, local brew may be limited but we get plenty from everywhere, any substantially notable breweries that do not distribute here, such as russian river, three floyds, dogfish head etc. are exempt from the discussion at least on my end (there's enough acclaim out there for those for me to have little to any doubts on their quality)
     
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  9. LambicPentameter

    LambicPentameter Initiate (0) Aug 29, 2012 Nebraska

    Ah, now that is a shame, and I must admit that yours is a perspective that I'm not as knowledgeable about, as I don't have as much experience with German beers. If I were to start seeing oodles of American-made BPAs and BSPAs in place of classics like Duvel and Orval, I would definitely notice, because I've yet to find an American made beer in those styles that really is on par.

    Again, that is a shame. It's interesting, because in my area, there is a sort of beer renaissance going on, but the number of local brewpubs and breweries doesn't appear to be as saturated as it is in your area. Also, don't quote me on this, but there may be some kind of law on the books that makes it difficult for bars to carry taps from local brewpubs--I can only think of a couple that I've ever seen on tap outside their own taproom, and those have only occurred in the last 6-9 months or so.
     
  10. Ranbot

    Ranbot Pooh-Bah (2,463) Nov 27, 2006 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Keep in mind, that most brewers are making beers aimed at the current tastes of the market, as they are ultimately businesses after all. That doesn't necessarily mean that the quality control or brewing expertise going into the beer has diminished. For example Sierra Nevada is among the brewers with the highest level of quality control and brewing expertise in the world, and they took some criticism from some vocal members of this community for discontinuing their Tumbler (a brown ale) for another IPA (Flipside IPA I think). The truth is IPAs are selling better than brown ales and as a business they have to respond to that and it doesn't mean Sierra Nevada's quality or brewing skill is any less. If the community doesn't like the current trend of hoppy beers, then much of the onus falls on us to stop buying them and maintaining that market demand.
     
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  11. JackRWatkins

    JackRWatkins Maven (1,472) Nov 3, 2014 Georgia
    Trader

    i dont know for sure since the laws are no doubt different but it may be something akin to licensing/licenses, for example in alabama a brewery can sell you a growler, but cannot fill it due to the brewery not having a retail license
     
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  12. JackRWatkins

    JackRWatkins Maven (1,472) Nov 3, 2014 Georgia
    Trader

    I guess in that respect this is as much the fault of the consumer in some ways as anything, but the problem their is individual taste, and while I stand by my complaint at the beginning of this thread, if people want bitter beer, quality or not I suppose they have every right to both drink and demand it
     
  13. charlzm

    charlzm Initiate (0) Sep 3, 2007 California

    Thanks to the good old 3 tier system as I understand it, a brewery cannot self-distribute legally. I have seen breweries take kegs direct to retailers, though, and can only assume that this is done on paper under the umbrella of a
    distributor.
     
  14. TongoRad

    TongoRad Grand Pooh-Bah (3,884) Jun 3, 2004 New Jersey
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Is the moarIBUz thing still happening on a large scale? It seems to be morphing into the softer/fruitier IPA these days.
     
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  15. FutureJack

    FutureJack Initiate (0) Oct 30, 2007 California

    Somewhat related, I really like how Firestone Walker has capitalized on the local trend without sacrificing their ultra high-quality rarities and premium products. A few years ago they released their very mild and highly "drinkable" blonde ale simply called 805 - named after the central CA coast area code where they are located. I'm just inside this area code in Ventura County, north of Los Angeles and this beer is everywhere. I mean everywhere. Within the 805. And unless they have changed their distro, it's only available in the 805. All kinds of people who aren't really into beer drink it. And it's fine. I don't buy it often but it's fine. It's the beer you serve to someone who just wants "a beer". And I'm pretty sure the popularity of this beer has gone a long way towards funding a lot of the other super crazy awesome complex beers that rest of us are enjoying. So if "Drink local" for the local masses means I get more Parabola, more access to fresh Double Jack, and now a brand new wild ale barrel room facility within a 90-minute drive, then by all means, I hope other breweries figure out a way to capitalize on the taste buds of the local casual beer drinker while also serving the rest of us.
     
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  16. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    A number of good posts in this thread.

    It seems to me that the ‘state’ of American craft brewing is very much going to be region specific.

    @cavedave made mention of the variety of quality American craft beer in his neck of the woods.

    @drtth mentioned concerning SEPA: “Doesn't mean there are no breweries here that fit your description/stereotype, but they tend not to survive more than a few years because the customers understand that it takes more than just lots of hops in a kettle to make a good beer.”

    I also happen to live in SEPA and the above observation by Tom is spot on; if breweries/brewpubs located in SEPA are making lower quality beer they do not survive. There are just too many breweries/brewpubs making high quality craft beer that the lower quality breweries/brewpubs simply do not survive (or they learn to make higher quality beer).

    One thing I learned in this thread is that I am very glad that I don’t live in Alabama (from a craft beer perspective).

    Cheers!
     
  17. JackRWatkins

    JackRWatkins Maven (1,472) Nov 3, 2014 Georgia
    Trader

    haha no on that point you are certainly right, from a historical perspective, alabama being in the bible belt and so on, has not been very open about it's love for alcohol, this is to say that while people drink a lot here and always have, the undercurrent of unfounded religious shame has prevented most from understanding and/or embracing the art of alcohol and beer in particular, the sad truth is that alabama is still trying to crawl out of the bud light shaped hole that made it and despite progress is still having a hell of a time. thankfully enough beer is still made in and imported to here that those of us with a genuine admiration and love for beer can still be reasonably happy
     
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  18. Vitacca

    Vitacca Pooh-Bah (2,250) Sep 15, 2010 Montana
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Here in WI a brewery can self distribute so long that they make under X amout of barrels a year. Not sure how common that is across the country though.
     
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  19. JackRWatkins

    JackRWatkins Maven (1,472) Nov 3, 2014 Georgia
    Trader

    sorry one more thing I meant to say, sadly as well, people by and large here, even the ones who are attempting to embrace craft, still don't quite know what they are drinking and so anything above that bud light shaped hole I mentioned before is amazing, dont get me wrong this is a start, but not exactly a promising one
     
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  20. JackRWatkins

    JackRWatkins Maven (1,472) Nov 3, 2014 Georgia
    Trader

    that kinda ties into the "craft" classification doesn't it? I mean like in terms of the technical requirement
     
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