The unfiltered craze.

Here is another graph you might be interested in. It was hand drawn by the brewer of Grimm Artisanal Ales concerning their canned beers:

"When to drink the cans:
when you like them best. i prefer them 3 weeks and under. Here's how i think they evolve:

The more dry hopping, the more egregious the oxidation becomes... for example dreamweapon had less dry hopping so it may not have had as much explosive hop character, but i could actually enjoy an 8 week old dreamweapon more than an 8 week old afterimage.

Cans usually hit shelves at the 1 week old mark, so customers don't really get a chance to drink them in the initial few "green" days"

https://www.beeradvocate.com/commun...les-september-2016.446523/page-2#post-5005750

Cheers!

 

I'm mostly referring to breweries that are bottling and canning, although even draught only breweries can leave themselves susceptible to such off flavors. Any time a beer gets transferred, it takes some bit of damage. Recently, some breweries have reported great success with using diaphragm pumps instead of centrifugal pumps for a gentler transfer. There are a few other techniques that can help. I decided to use uni-tanks at Tombstone, so no transferring at all before kegging and now when I filter, I filter carbonate beer directly from the unitank into the keg and it is just pushed with co2. We do have downsides with this method, but I feel the benefits outweigh the drawbacks.

Certainly! Ribes aroma is perhaps the earliest sign of oxidation and is noticeable for about 2 days after bottling in my experience. I think that sometimes people refer to "bottle shock" in freshly bottled beer and that the ribes aroma is the likely culprit. I have high hopes for the canning line I'm getting ready to order that I will be able to give an honest 3 month shelf life on unfiltered, hoppy beers, but I still think that the fresher the better.

 

Delicious

 

Was that a typo ("filter carbonate")? Supposed to be "filter carbonated", right? Or are you doing in-line carbing going to keg somehow? I push carbonated beer from brite to keg using CO2 as well. Same process going from primaries to horizontal tanks for lagering (no pumps). About to get access to a DO meter, so will be able to check soon for any problems there. Right now, our Kellerbier and Rauchbier seem to be holding up well beyond 3 months. Kolumbianer (Koelsch-style) def bumps up against issues around 12-13 weeks.

 

Correct, that was a typo. I'm taking carbonated beer from the fermenter and going directly from the fermenter, through the filter, and into kegs. I've been happy with that process so far, but it requires meticulous yeast dumps to make sure the beer won't clog the filter. I'm working on getting horizontals and plan to pressurize the horizontal with co2 and use a balance line for the first half of the transfer from the conical, then slowly pushing the rest with co2.

My experience with Kolsch brewing is that for some reason, Kolsch is ultra sensitive to oxidation. I believe that is part of the reason that Kolsch is served in small stanges. I've had times where I drank pints of Kolsch too slowly and thought that the first sips tasted great and the last sips taste oxidized. If you're getting 12 weeks out of it, I suspect you're doing great. From the little bit you said about your process, it sounds to me like you are doing a good job.

 

Ribes is described as:

“Catty is a tom cat urine, ribes or blackcurrent like off flavour that can occur in beer. Seen generally as an off flavour (but as a positive flavour in some ales), Catty can indicate early oxidation of beer during storage. This flavour is highly flavour active and can easily be detected once trained.”

You have tasted “tom cat urine” 2 days after bottling?

Cheers!

 

I would not describe it as cat urine, but I would describe it as being blackcurrant like. It is subtle, but noticeable, especially in lighter styles. It is actually noticeable more at 24 hours than at 48 hours in my experience. I would imagine it needs to be a very high level to get cat urine from it.

 

Enjoying their Vengeful Barbarian as we speak way out here in Phoenix! Great brewery.

 

That's a tasty one as well, yeah they are doing a great job with their beers.

 

I have never experienced "cat urine" or "blackcurrant" or anything similar in any beer (homebrewed or commercial). It is remarkable to me that the window where this occurs is so tight (e.g., 24 hours). Maybe this is why I have never experienced this? Needless to say but the quickest I have ever tasted my homebrew is after 14 days of bottle conditioning. When I go to a brewpub I have zero knowledge of the timing for serving those beers.

Just out of curiosity, does the relative shape of the ribes curve via Dalgliesh intimate to you a 24-48 hour horizon?

Cheers!

Cheers!

 

I think that curve is more of a visual for understanding that there is a lot going on, rather than a completely accurate scale of the flavor development. So, I'm going with no. However, other brewers with higher end packaging equipment than what I have used may feel differently. I'm anxious to see some new equipment in use and maybe at that point I'll feel differently.

 

Alright am I the only one who never thought about differentiating between different types of cat urine before?

 

Fair enough.

I have never, ever tasted "ribes" in a beer of any kind so if you have tasted female cat urine in a beer like the curve presented my hat is off to you!!

Cheers!

 

Pretty sure cats do it all the time!

 

Thanks everyone I'm gonna go barf now.

 

I only drink cask beer and I have had the occasional pint where the first sips were drinkable but over minutes the remainder became unpleasant.But only beer which had been kept too long after being tapped.
Oxidation of fresh beer is in my experience what transforms cask beer into a vastly better drink than when it left the brewery.I can't imagine how any beer poured fresh into a glass would do anything but improve while the air works its magic.Wine conoisseurs also like to let their drink "breathe"

 

Bright w Citra at 3 weeks is tasting stellar tonight. A roll or two of the can on the bar before serving gets that haziness in top form...

 

Oh boy, another photoshopped photograph!!

Cheers!

 

All the doctored photos of Tree House IPAs look the same. Do they all use the same... filter?

 

Jack - Cheers to you too. I know you are a fan of Trill/HF and Tired Hands juicy/cloudy IPAs -- curious as to your thoughts on the Treehouse brews -- have you had an opportunity to try any? Thoughts? If you haven't - I'd love to send you a few your way as I'm fortunate to have a bit of a backlog at the moment. Will message you.