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The White Whale List - 2012

Discussion in 'Beer Trading Talk' started by AgentZero, Dec 24, 2012.

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  1. rmaste6282

    rmaste6282 Apr 30, 2009 California
    Beer Trader

    Yeah, that's the one I want to believe.
  2. cetherid

    cetherid Aug 23, 2010 Indiana
    Beer Trader

    Yet Eszett "comes in" at #45....is that beer the outlier? A few months old......not many reviews....few have even tasted in......not much noise about this beer other than those from across the pond and those involved in this list.
  3. mulder1010

    mulder1010 Aug 29, 2008 Australia


    First batch should be on the White whale list.
    Granted, Australia is 10 years behind the US in brewing and NZ is more known for IPA's right now.
    I suppose being geographically isolated does hurt here and there. That and 10 BA's who review here do not help either
  4. Thorpe429

    Thorpe429 Aug 18, 2008 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    Why would this be on the White Whales list? Honestly, I've never heard of this beer (or the brewery, for that matter), so I am extremely skeptical that it would be even close to one of the 100-150 most desirable beers, active or retired.

    Of course there is going to be a geographic bias to this. Most BAs are in the United States, and the vast majority of very highly-regarded breweries are either in the US or Belgium. Thus, the list is highly geographically focused.

    The list is subjective and based on what people actually desire, not what they should desire, or what the best beers are. However, even though we tried to be objective, it's hard to see the appeal of a beer that really has no name and, objectively speaking, doesn't have the sort of reviews -- on this site or others -- that would suggest that it would be as desirable as the beers on the list we're discussing.*

    * I know you said the first batch, so maybe the view of that is different, but when the overall level of the beer is fairly low (in comparison, of course), that's going to drag down the entire reputation.
    lurchingbeast likes this.
  5. JulianB

    JulianB Feb 1, 2012 South Carolina

    I'll homer it up for the semi-local brewery and say that I'm somewhat surprised Coast Old Nuptial didn't appear anywhere on the list.
  6. AgentZero

    AgentZero Jul 19, 2009 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    It goes on the White Whale list if people want it to be. The is list is based entirely on perception and subjective opinion. I admit to knowing nothing about this beer other than what I can glean from the reviews and ratings (which can't be said to blow me away), but the fact I know nothing about it at all would prevent me from ever ranking it.
  7. AgentZero

    AgentZero Jul 19, 2009 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    Will add it to the list for next year.
  8. AgentZero

    AgentZero Jul 19, 2009 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    The list was inspired by SpeedwayJim's list and created both with his blessing and participation. As far as which one to believe, they are both 100% right.
  9. themind

    themind Mar 14, 2011 New Jersey

    A question remains is a " Whale " a hard to get brew or a hard to get legendary brew. For example Hair of the Dog Dave is a 95 rated by BA members. Also the second Cantillon Soleil de Minuit is a 94 rated by BA members. To me it seems a " Whale " should be a hard to get, legendary beer not just a hard to find beer. IMO
  10. goodbetterbestbested

    goodbetterbestbested May 10, 2012 California

  11. Sean9689

    Sean9689 Mar 17, 2009 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    A whale is whatever you think a whale is. There's no one definition and everyone has a different opinion...this is just the complied thoughts of several tasting groups who have experience with a lot of these beers over many years.
  12. readbaron

    readbaron May 12, 2010 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    ? I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Are you saying it's not a whale unless it has a BA score of 100? Pretty sure getting a BA score of 100 requires a significant number of reviews, so that will never happen. You'll notice that the average rating of Soleil is rather high - which is really what you should pay attention to in the first place.
  13. themind

    themind Mar 14, 2011 New Jersey

    Ok just stating my opinion, thats what we do here right? like the guys that did the review...an opinion.
  14. themind

    themind Mar 14, 2011 New Jersey

    I respect your opinion, I am simply stating my opinion....nothing more.
  15. goodbetterbestbested

    goodbetterbestbested May 10, 2012 California

    you aren't really stating an opinion though, you're just sort of saying stuff
    shyhenry, Bluecane, JulianB and 4 others like this.
  16. themind

    themind Mar 14, 2011 New Jersey

    I will now exit this conversation since I did say something and now your just trolling me. You can have the last word.
  17. BAstoutsNsours

    BAstoutsNsours Sep 21, 2012 Florida

    You make my head hurt, bro. I need a beer...
    MasterCraft and Michigan like this.
  18. AgentZero

    AgentZero Jul 19, 2009 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    To add to what Sean said, there is no proper and objective definition of a "whale." Truth is, one man's whale may be another man's minnow (props to who said that first, wasn't me). The purpose of making this list was to try to get a collective read on what BAs as a group believe a whale is. A whale is only a whale if you think it is. The list is truly a list of perception, which was then averaged out to try to give a more normalized list of whales. Some are hard to get, some are legendarily good, some are a combination.

    Truth is, everyone who participated in making this list said "To me, it seems a 'Whale' should be...", and that was how they made the list. They were given no other instructions BUT a whale is what you think it is and that's how you should do the rankings. If you look over what each person did, you will see a lot of variation.

    Again, the list is only as right as you want it to be. Regardless of that, it was a lot of fun, and I think a useful tool for keeping older and legendary beers in the collective mindset and helping newer BAs to find out about "Whales" that they would otherwise never hear about or encounter.
    themind, GrumpyOldTroll and JulianB like this.
  19. Michigan

    Michigan Oct 24, 2012 Michigan

    When is a "whale" retired? Once we hunt it to extinction? I imagine I could probably count the number of Soliel de Minuit or Spuyten Duyvil bottles without having to use my toes.

    So when is it turned from a "white whale" to a "ghost whale"?
  20. drgarage

    drgarage Aug 19, 2008 California

    What he is saying is that the Pinot Noir-aged variant of Supplication should be ahead of Dave. And he's clearly right.
    domtronzero and themind like this.
  21. BAstoutsNsours

    BAstoutsNsours Sep 21, 2012 Florida

    How about the PvW '07 BCBS?
  22. drgarage

    drgarage Aug 19, 2008 California

    Oh, please. I'll take a 6-month-aged Pliney the Older, thank you very much. It's a world-class barleywine.
  23. themind

    themind Mar 14, 2011 New Jersey

    I agree, great thread!
  24. themind

    themind Mar 14, 2011 New Jersey

  25. Knifestyles

    Knifestyles Jun 7, 2005 New York

    Kimmich's point was that Heady Topper held on for the long haul due to the packaging (i.e. can). Unfortunately, Pliny is packaged in a glass bottle with a cap which thus exposes it to all of the wonderfully nasty things that tend to ruin a beer (especially a DIPA) over an extended period of time. This is not an opinion, but rather a factual statement.
    Gosox8787, Michigan and cavedave like this.
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