Thiolized Yeast Adventures

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by MrOH, Mar 19, 2023.

  1. MrOH

    MrOH Grand Pooh-Bah (3,501) Jul 5, 2010 Maryland
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Just because there's a lot of folks talking about this in the Brewing Activities thread, thought I'd start a separate thread to talk about the ins and outs of brewing with these yeasts.

    LHBS was out of Helio Glazer, but had Imperial Capri in stock, which is Imperial's thiolized yeast. Going to do a White IPA with it. All malt, 66.7% Golden Promise, 25% White Wheat Malt, 8.3% Oat Malt, mash hopped with whole leaf Cascade, Pacific Jade to bitter, Mandarina Bavaria late and in whirlpool, Indian Coriander, Mandarin zest, and Sansho in whirlpool. Also going to put a bit of the coriander in the mash, too, just cause.

    Hoping for a super fruity, citrusy, slightly spicy, refreshing, but fuller bodied beer for the spring.

    How are y'all's experiments with thiols going?
     
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  2. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,351) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society

    That beer 'reads' tasty. You have quite a bit going on there with spices/flavor additions along with the hopping (will you also dry hop?). Do you think you will be able to distinguish what the thiolized yeast is 'bringing to the party' with all of the other ingredients?

    Cheers!
     
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  3. MrOH

    MrOH Grand Pooh-Bah (3,501) Jul 5, 2010 Maryland
    Pooh-Bah Society

    It's a beer that I've brewed before as a wit, just upping the gravity (extra pound of GP) and the mash stuff is all that is new outside of the yeast.
     
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  4. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,351) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society

    OK, you have sorta a 'baseline' here.

    I will be interested to hear your thoughts about this beer. Sounds like an interesting 'exBEERiment' to me.

    Cheers!

    P.S. Have you had a Belgian Witbeer (e.g., commercially brewed) that was made with Sansho prior to you brewing it?
     
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  5. MrOH

    MrOH Grand Pooh-Bah (3,501) Jul 5, 2010 Maryland
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Only beer I've had with Sansho that I didn't brew myself was an IPA from Beer Belly in Japan. It was interesting, reminded me of the type of IPA you'd get from East Coast/Mid-Atlantic breweries in the early 2000s. Thought that the flavor would work better in a saison or wit, and with my homebrewing trials, I was right!
     
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  6. MrOH

    MrOH Grand Pooh-Bah (3,501) Jul 5, 2010 Maryland
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Also, no dry hopping. Don't want to cover up whatever the yeast/mash hopping brings to the table. It was already on the hoppier side for a wit, the mash addition of Cascade brings it into White IPA IBUs going by the Brewer's Friend calculator.
     
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  7. wasatchback

    wasatchback Maven (1,460) Jan 12, 2014 Tajikistan
    Trader

    Capri is not a thiolized yeast. Imperial is an all organic company, pretty sure they can’t sell gene edited yeasts.

    I believe it’s just a hybrid of a a Kviek yeast and London 3.

    With Omegas new thiolized yeasts that use the Pat B gene mod (Helio gazer, Star Party, Lunar Crush) you don’t need to do anything to promote Thiol content in the wort, if anything you need to reduce it. These yeasts release an insane amount of thiols from the malt and honestly it’s too much. Yeah there is white wine, grapefruit, and guava but there’s also tons of pencil eraser and other weird sulfur compounds.

    Blending these yeasts with a standard ale or lager yeast and supplementing the grain bill with a bunch of wheat or oats to reduce malt based thiol precursors is what I’d recommend.

    Or just use Cosmic Punch.
     
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  8. YourBeerRunner

    YourBeerRunner Aspirant (212) May 3, 2022

    Don't know about thiolized yeasts. Wanted to get one. Didn't know they were gene-edited. Following the adventures!
     
  9. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,351) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society

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  10. YourBeerRunner

    YourBeerRunner Aspirant (212) May 3, 2022

  11. MrOH

    MrOH Grand Pooh-Bah (3,501) Jul 5, 2010 Maryland
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Phooey. Guess I'll brew an IPA with the Capri, brew my wit as usual, and then try to get some cosmic punch next time I have a free space on the brew schedule.
     
  12. MrOH

    MrOH Grand Pooh-Bah (3,501) Jul 5, 2010 Maryland
    Pooh-Bah Society

  13. YourBeerRunner

    YourBeerRunner Aspirant (212) May 3, 2022

    I now have Omega's Star Party and the dried Sauvignon Blanc Grape powder, AKA the thiol precursors.

    It's supposed to be like their Ale yeast and clear out.

    Should I just make a SMASH with Amarillo? Maybe with Pilsner malt, or throw in some Honey malt too? I hope this would be a good place to start with this new yeast.
     
  14. YourBeerRunner

    YourBeerRunner Aspirant (212) May 3, 2022

    I'm running a 14 oz test batch with Omega's Star Party. It got going already and it smells of intense honey. This is new. I was reading that a normal starter wouldn't be very telling because of the unique GMO activities it does to free up the flavorful and aromatic compounds known as thiols. While a DME starter will have some of those, a real hopped beer would be way better.

    OG 1.052
    Simpsons Golden Promise (94.4%)
    Dingemans Special B (3.7%)
    Flaked Barley (1.9%)

    IBU 40
    Centennial (10.5 AA) at 60 mins
    Mandarina Bavaria at (8.5 AA) 20 mins
    Centennial (10.5 AA) at 5 mins
     
  15. Naugled

    Naugled Pooh-Bah (1,882) Sep 25, 2007 New York
    Pooh-Bah Society

    The last (and first) mash hopped batch using Helio Gazer is still holding up to my original comments in the "What are you brewing" thread. The bottled version of that batch has remained fruitier than the kegged DH'd version still after about 3-4 weeks.

    I plan to brew another batch in a few weeks, and plan to skip the DH'ing in the keg to see if that was what reduced the fruitiness in the last batch. I have a feeling it has to do more with the yeast sediment in the bottle than the DH'ing, but we'll see.

    @wasatchback I also noticed the increased sulfur with this yeast, you can easily detect it during fermentation but is practically imperceptible in the finished beer.

    @MrOH are you near Malta NY? or the country? if NY, I'll be up that way in a couple of weeks. I'd be happy to share some Helio Gazer with you. I saved a few bottles of slurry from the last batch. I plan to use one in my next batch, but I won't need the other bottle so you are welcome to it. BM me if you would like some.
     
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  16. Supergenious

    Supergenious Savant (1,249) May 9, 2011 Michigan

    @Naugled I had someone tell me that their 2nd generation Helio gazer did not turn out well. I’m not sure what the issue was though. Have you repitched it yet?
     
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  17. Naugled

    Naugled Pooh-Bah (1,882) Sep 25, 2007 New York
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Not yet, I plan to brew in a couple of weeks. I'll keep you posted once I do.
     
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  18. grahamp33

    grahamp33 Aspirant (210) Feb 27, 2019 Indiana
    Trader

    After listening to numerous podcasts concerning dry hopping in thiolized yeasts, I suspect you are right to remove the keg addition to retain more juicy, fruity hop flavor. The vegetal matter in the hop is sucking up more and more those thiols over time.
     
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  19. Naugled

    Naugled Pooh-Bah (1,882) Sep 25, 2007 New York
    Pooh-Bah Society

    That might be worth an experiment.
    Maybe in my next batch I'll DH 5 gal in the keg, then move half of it to a smaller keg without the vegetal matter. I could then compare the two kegs over a few weeks to see how they compare.
     
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  20. MrOH

    MrOH Grand Pooh-Bah (3,501) Jul 5, 2010 Maryland
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Once the brewing calendar eases up (probably take a while, lots I want to brew, lots of other stuff to do, too), I'm thinking I'll brew an all-Cascade, somewhat hoppy American wheat. Figure that I'll really be able see what the thiols are doing on that, since I pretty much know what Cascade tastes like.