thoughts on $4$ trades

I agree that shelf and semi limited beer should roll $4$, but for brewery only/1 day per year releases, I easily see why they trade over $4$. I certainly don't see anyone trading $50 worth of their beer for BVDL on the FT forums. Supply and demand work themselves out, and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

Yet auctions are somehow wrong. Lol

I really don't see a difference if supply & demand are gonna justify trade values. What better way to establish value than an auction format. Personally, I only trade $4$ so I don't worry about trades being lopsided. I don't care how .rar a beer is. I just care that that I'd rather drink the beer I'm trading for more than the beer I have. I'm not commodities trading. I'm actually gonna drink the stuff I trade for.

 

Because I'd like to start trading, Carton to be exact

But thanks for the help. Money for money? As in your retail = my retail?, makes sense

 

Let me know if you want OH IPA's I'd love to try Boat and 077xx! BM me if interested.

 

Well, IMHO yes and no. I try to keep to $4$ with beers of similar availability, but with the $ based on brewery/release prices. Just because I ran across a four-pack of BCBCS at an out-of-the-way shop for $40 doesn't mean I expect someone else to value it for that much in a trade.

 

This really is a moving target with no right or wrong answers, but lots of discusison.
As others have said, it's a good starting point, but in the end it all comes down to this: Are both sides happy?

There are so many factors to think about when you're making an ISO/FT.
-supply/demand (of the beer you're looking to get and the beer you're offering)
-bottle limits
-Rarity for rarity
-brewery only or distribution
-retail price (will be different based on distribution)
-perceived value
-Hype associated with the beer and/or brewery

The list goes on, but you get the point that there are many factors to consider. A couple examples to show how $4$ doesn't work. VSB and Sour Peach are brewery only releases that cost $8/bottle. You will not find anyone trading these $4$, particularly because there are not many/any bottles with the demand these bottles have at that price. Another example is de Garde bottles, where many are $9 or $10. In the past it was a bit easier to make trades for these beers becuase the limits were higher. But as demand has increased and bottle limits decreased to 1 or 2, it's now much harder to make $4$ deals on de Garde trades.

In the end, trading is much easier and more enjoyable if you're flexible on what you want in realation to what you have, and you realize you can't have every beer released.

 

$4$ should only apply to shelf or readily available items. Once you are talking about a beer with bottle limits/special releases/low bottle count/etc, $4$ goes right out the window.

 

Nailed it. If beers of of a comparable "tier" (shelf, limited shelf, brewery-only, special event, waelzbro, whatever) $4$ is a pretty equitable place to start. Ultimately, do whatever makes both parties happy.

The only counter-example I've had to this is where the value of bottles in the trade were not really something that could be nailed down that $4$ as a notion went out the window. To provide a concrete example, this particular trade involved both Vanilla Rye and Fou Foune. Vanilla Rye seemed to be going anywhere from $17-$40, while Fou could have been anywhere from $20-$80+. If you're using $4$ as a metric, you can end up anywhere from VR:FF of 4+:1 all the way to 1:2. As a result of this inherent uncertainty, neither party in this trade brought up $4$ and we just quickly closed on an assortment of bottles on both ends that satisfied both parties.

Ultimately, $4$ is just a good heuristic to use when trying to establish a trade that is likely to make both parties happy. Don't live and die by it, but don't dismiss it -- it's a heuristic for a reason.

 

There's a difference between what it's worth, and what you paid for it...there's geographical and economical factors in play, in my limited trading, I've always disclosed what I pay for it at my store, and I don't need exact compensation, as long as it's in the ballpark

 

Exactly, otherwise Huna or Dark Lord would be traded for two 6 packs of Pivo Pils. I doubt anyone is doing that.

 

no, you're missing the key point myself and several others noted earlier in the thread.

first & foremost, the beers need to be at the same level of rarity/availability/etc.

as long as that holds true, $4$ normally works (there are always outliers, i.e. VSB, or odd situations, i.e. Cantillon)

 

Oh I agree, I was more directing that towards people who say they trade $4$ no matter what. I probably quoted the wrong person.

 

$4$ works well for every day beers that are being flipped, but it goes out the window on ltd release hard to get beer. I've seen $300 worth of beer offered up on a single 12 oz Kbbs that cost $15, and some of the isos IMO were quite ridiculous, but I have no doubt it traded for other rare beers at a very tilted rate. Just the way it is on certain beers.

 

This - I had a guy give me attitude because I expected ~$35 of beer for 12 bottles of Zombie dust. First of all, $4$ should be what you paid, not the best possible price from the brewery itself. If it's too much, you can just walk away and find someone who lives in Munster. Second of all, shipping was going to cost about twice as much as a couple of bombers that I was looking for. Thankfully I was able to move on to another offer.

 

I understand prices vary so $4$ can be different to different people, but some established baselines do need to exist. I can't trade my $40 vanilla rye for 2x someone's $20 vanilla rye. Unless someone wants to do this haha, mine is more "valuable".

 

Agreed, I guess my point is that there are many more variables than the MSRP in play and all need to be considered to come up with a fair $4$. For truly rare stuff like BCBS variants, $4$ is pretty much irrelevant unless you trading another $20 beer that you waited in line for hours for.

 

Oh I agree, just raising the point is all. It applies to regular beers as well. A good local example for me is Sip of Sunshine. I've seen it from $14-$22 a 4pk. I think enough people have traded it that it had a fairly well established cost of $15 for $4$ purposes. Unfortunately some stores will charge more than others, in most cases I don't think that should factor into $4$.

 

The prices are jacked up. Bloody nihilists.....

 

I am just getting into trading. I was involved in a trade recently with a poster in this thread. I think we both were quite happy with the outcome. I wasn't worried about winning it and he wasn't either. Because of that we are working on another trade.

I have another trade working for a sought after beer of mine. I have had this certain beer multiple times. If I can make another BA happy and get something in return in the $4$ range that is what this site is for. I have a lot of great beer and enjoy trying more. I am not trying to win.

 

Cheers, I'm right there with you. Although I am trying to win, I consider winning hooking up the other person bigger than they hooked me up. If we all have that attitude, everyone wins!