Threadshitting - A civil discussion…

Having conducted close to 200 trades prior to the site changing its format I am pretty disenchanted with the whole trading scene these days and have pretty much stopped. The era of folks who know the value of their beer and are willing to live within that range rather than asking for ridiculous or unrealistic beers in return has clearly passed in the last year or so. Call me part of the old guard as I am pretty disgusted to see some of the things people are asking for in exchange for off the shelf, high bottle count releases. And this includes those folks in Cali who are ransoming off their Beatification to the highest bidder. I personally picked up close to 2 cases of Beatification that are going to previous trader friends. I think I kept 2 bottles for myself.

I have not personally shit on any trade threads but I know why folks do it. I think some older veteran traders feel that they need to help out not the newbie who is offering beers, but the guy on the other end who may be responding to a lopsided trade offer. He should be told that it is not in his best interest to give up his limited release, low bottle count beers in exchange for the KBS/KIng Henry/Beatifications of the world. I wish I had somebody who would have done that for me when I first started as I can distinctly recall being taking advantage of on a few occasions. But like I said I stay out of it these days and just deal with my regular traders who are extremely generous and not looking to take advantage of me.

 

You said it, very far fetched. No one actually does that and has it work. He didn't drop hints that Vanilla was worth more than the newer ones...it just reads even more so like that because he felt the need to say I don't mean to thread shit but to minimize the backlash from it. That statement without that extra comment is just facts and the people involve in the trade can interpret what they want from that. When they say its closed and you ask what the trade was, that's how you start to get an idea of the value that at least some people place on that particular beer in the BA community.

 

I actually read part of this thread while on the shitter.

 

All of the white knights on here don't give a shit about the guy getting screwed so long as the OP isn't being impeded. I've thought about bringing up this concept, but I've never seen anyone in any thread credit a poster for potentially aiding a would-be trader.

 

If the old site were up that would be easy. The people jumping into peoples threads always had the beer in their gots, or recently posted threads trying to trade it. People haven't updated their profiles the same way on the new site, and there is less history to go through and see it. Trust me, I don't just throw out assumptions like that. It is something I have seen countless times.

 

Couldn't agree more...I think that sways trades more than "thread shitting" does. Its like people are trying to intimidate others into not making an offer with their offer out in the public view. Maybe the guy doesn't even get the beer he really wanted because someone posted an offer of a beer that the guy with the beer that is really wanted thinks o well, my offer won't be good enough. Those replies almost feel like its the guys making the offers that are trying to make it into public auction. Just my 2 cents.

 

The CA guys with Black Tuesday (before it was as common as it is today), and the Chicago people with Rare was a good example.

 

Maybe I should just accept it and join the party.

 

If the old forums were up it would still be a moot point because the ISO:FT forum was purged. But regardless of that, how does having a beer disqualify you from expressing your opinion about it's worth? I understand some may be trying to drive up value, but I as an owner of the beer probably have some good knowledge about it.

 

It would be nice to have more information about beers on their profile pages. Bottle counts, release dates, brewery only vs. on the shelf, etc. It would probably have to be open to wiki style editing though, as there's no way the Bros would have time to keep up with all that information.

 

This is already possible to an extent. Whoever makes the first review can add info and you can submit updates. I agree more info would be available if it was easier to edit though.

 

I whole heartedly disagree with your paragraph. I chime in when I think info will be useful to be publicly available and most of the time I don't have the beer in question or any steak in it because I'm gonna drink mine/send them to trading partners so it doesn't affect me at all. I'm very objective and fair so I don't care how many people think I'm thread shitting because I have a steak in it...I don't. The only trades I've done with non trading partners in the past 9 months have been for heady topper, zombie dust and furious/abrasive.

The most recent trade thread I chimed in while drunk so it kinda got outta hand because of my tone but it was an 08 PS offer and I chimed in when a member known well for having and dealing in whales, which newbies might respect the opinion of, posted on there what his offer was, wondering why he hadn't heard back. His offer was a lowball and I spoke up because I didn't want a newbie with a trading partner in VT or a newbie from VT thinking he could basically grab his local new brewery only beers, then order 140 dollars worth of still readily available beer from Europe and shazam! He can get an 08 PS...that's not even close to the case and maybe some poor noob wouldn't have spent the money on those beers from Europe had he known otherwise. I have every beer that this guy was offering and don't have an 08 PS so I was actually working against the value of my own beers. It doesn't even really matter because I actually plan on drinking them or giving them to trading partners but I would've still done the same thing if I had planned on putting them up in the trade forum eventually.

 

Completely agree but you also have to agree with me that it isn't always easy to find that info since its not on the profile page of a beer here or on RB sometimes so you have to search through threads and often are just too lazy to do so. This is why I'm all for posting facts about beers on trade threads and letting the people doing the trading interpret it however they want to. The people posting facts really need to stop with the I don't mean to thread shit buts...it automatically makes people look for the unbalanced side of the trade since that is why someone would be thread shitting right?

 

Had I been drinking something when I read that, some of it would have been on the floor. That was like the Shutter Island of replies. Totally didn't see that coming.

 

I think you are over reacting. I barely trade (maybe 3 shipping trades a year and another 5 IP trades), so I usually do not have a dog in the fight. I feel like all of my comments (I don't consider any post in an ISO:FT threadshitting) in the trading forum have been to help people out. One of the times I asked a question for clarity the OP and I worked out a trade.

Instead of saying the Help forum is not used enough, I think another feature is not used enough. The "report" button. If someone is truly threadshitting and not trying to help out report them. I have reported a good number of people. Posting in the trade forum has great potential, but it can be a delicate process.

There will always be assholes who want to threadshit for what ever reason, they need to be monitored but should not hinder the rest of the community.

 

It's amazing to me how many people overlook this concept in this community where we're allegedly looking out for each other.

 

"TL;DR The market dictates trades, not you. Learn to live with that and all will be fine"[/quote]

But you are part of the market. Every time you trade with someone, there is an opportunity to influence them to wish to trade with you again. There is nothing wrong with a little enlightened self-interest.

 

If it's ever me, I keep those advice private. Those are the types that should go through BM. What my personal experience was in getting the beer or trying to trade for it is not a fact that can accurately be interpreted for evaluation purposes. The bottle counts and when last released, etc, etc really do belong in the public eye as a reply to the thread though.

 

Yeah I agree with you there. As soon as you see "I don't mean to threadshit", you get suspicious that the OP is trying to pull a fast one and scam a bunch of people with an unfair trade.

Here's my final opinion on the subject:
(1) If the OP says something untrue or misleading, he needs to be called out on it.
(2) If the OP is someone who clearly knows better and is posting ridiculous offers, he needs to be called out on it.
(3) If a trade has a remote chance of getting done and there is no misinformation in the offer, then no one should post comments.
(4) If the OP specifically asks for comments, then by all means civil comments are fair game.
(5) Crickets are extremely useful, despite what some people in this thread think. I learned the ropes based on crickets, and I think it worked out pretty well.

 

But you are part of the market. Every time you trade with someone, there is an opportunity to influence them to wish to trade with you again. There is nothing wrong with a little enlightened self-interest.[/quote]
I agree but the problem is that we and especially newer traders can't get a clear picture of the market because we can't see stocks sell and their value go up as well as not sell and the value go down so to speak.