Threadshitting - A civil discussion…

I agree but the problem is that we and especially newer traders can't get a clear picture of the market because we can't see stocks sell and their value go up as well as not sell and the value go down so to speak.[/quote]


Maybe we just have different objectives when it comes to trading. Do I have an idea of what my beer is "worth" when I trade it? Sure, and I often reject trades that don't advance my interests in one way or another, but I have personally found that when trade discussions become overly focused on "value" and "maximizing return," the whole exchange becomes more of an exercise in exploitation than a social transaction, and I find this thoroughly dissatisfying. Keeping an eye on the "stock ticker" is generally fruitless for me; I think it's easier to find someone with complementary interests than it is to convince someone I've never met that we should each value a set of beers equally based upon the comments (which are easy to make, but difficult to verify) of a bunch of other people I've never met.

 

I see both sides of the issue, but do agree with BigTomZ that many of the threadshits are from people with an interest in keeping the value of their beer higher...and letting people know why.
In my early days of trading, I probably got "taken advantage of" in the sense that I sent more limited release beer for stuff like Pliny and Supplication, but I also got fantastic beers, great extras, and was thrilled to get what I got, and gained some trading partners that I still have today, and I go and get the good beers I can get from my area and send to them, and they get good beers from their area and send to me. Pretty simple really.
So when someone thinks it's stupid to offer a Bramble for a Vanilla, and needs to educate everyone on why, it kinda sucks. Maybe he'll find a trading partner, maybe he won't. But, for the love of good beer, just leave his FT:ISO alone.

 

The whole vibe of this thread is really getting me down. I suggest we change the title to:

Facesitting - A civil discourse.

 

Everyone is quick to pick on the supposedly self-serving conduct of the alleged "threadshitters."

So what are the intentions of people trying to get above-market value for their trades? They often aren't look for a "fair" deal either, but rather to maximize their own results. It would seem at worst that there's a push and pull, so let's at least acknowledge that.

 

Maybe we just have different objectives when it comes to trading. Do I have an idea of what my beer is "worth" when I trade it? Sure, and I often reject trades that don't advance my interests in one way or another, but I have personally found that when trade discussions become overly focused on "value" and "maximizing return," the whole exchange becomes more of an exercise in exploitation than a social transaction, and I find this thoroughly dissatisfying. Keeping an eye on the "stock ticker" is generally fruitless for me; I think it's easier to find someone with complementary interests than it is to convince someone I've never met that we should each value a set of beers equally based upon the comments (which are easy to make, but difficult to verify) of a bunch of other people I've never met.[/quote]

O totally, don't get me wrong I'm in complete agreement with you. I just like trading beer I have tried and would rather trade for something new for something I think I'll like that is in the same range of value as perceived by me and my range can be pretty wide. I'll turn down a much rarer barleywine all day in favor of a less rare than my beer sour or stout that I think I'd love. I'm just saying that its not easy to see that your Pangea can't trade for a Chocolate Rain from a stranger unless the universe implodes when we can't see the market clearly and therefore don't know what each one is trading for. By we I don't really mean me, just new traders though I am pretty much in the dark as to value of the newer beers since I haven't used the trading forums much for anything not readily available in a pretty long time with the exception of my last whale hunt.

 

Whenever I threadshit, it's because I'm jealous that the guy creating the topic might land the beers from someone generous...

 

That makes no sense though...the whole premise of being generous is that you know the trade is lopsided against your favor. I don't see how other people thread shitting will discourage someone from being generous. Unless you're talking about this generous person not seeing the thread at all because it got nuked due to thread shitting.

 

Speaking as a newbie myself in the beer-trading realm, I appreciate the self-policing aspect that so-called "threadshitting" offers in the trade forums. While I know fairly well what Cali and other West Coast product is "worth," or at least what's totally offbase in terms of estimated trade value, I'm pretty clueless about much of the product in the rest of the country, and I find it useful to incorporate the forum feedback in other people's ISO:FT posts when mulling over my own beer wants. Could I use the trading help forum for that purpose? Yeah, I suppose, but I'd think an endless stream of "is a trade of ______x2 and ______x4 for ______x3 and _____x2 fair???" posts or "what is ______ worth???" posts is just inane. Just post the damn proposed trade in the ISO:FT forums and get your feedback that way.

 

Good point.

Whenever I threadshit, it's because I'm jealous that the guy creating the topic might land the beers.

 

Remember when I made a thread saying this, and people told me I was being ridiculous? That was fun. At this point I get the distinct feeling that I'm like 80% of the use of that button.

Maybe I'm just being sensitive because I traded a lot of Beat (a whopping one bottle to someone who I hadn't traded with before, though), but did this actually happen? I pay a lot of attention to the forums and didn't ever see it.

 

don't like threadshitting, but i want to remind people that it's only at a very particular "level" (or maybe better to say "variety") of beer that it influences whether a trade gets done.

off the shelf locals for off the shelf locals will either be seen by the right person or it won't. you're not going to threadshit away that guy who wants some pliny for some gandhi-bot; everyone involved knows damn well that they'll be able to get these beers again.

limited, rare beers that weren't just released are also unlikely to be influenced by threadshitting. if someone has the ammo to bag something that difficult to get, do you really think they give a fuck that you don't like the trade? do you think the OP got the rare beer they're offering by being led around by threadshitters?

---

threadshitting basically hinders or helps people with stuff like new limited releases, unknown local releases, etc, if even those.

---

the problem with threadshitting is the constant bumping of ISOs knocking everyone else off the front page b/c BA comedians think they're considerably funnier than they are. the other problem is spreading this culture of tough guy public bargaining trying to bully value this way and that (because once you tick them all, your dick grows an inch).

i prefer post-only, but i also rarely post on the ISO:FT forum (edit: other than when i'm threadshitting, of course). rather just trade when it randomly comes up. (as for when i read ISO:FT looking for trades, i--probably obviously--couldn't care less what threadshitters say in a thread). my one reservation is that scammers getting called out in threads is a good thing... it's sort of an empirical question as to whether or not that would outweigh the bad. if there were replies but no bumps, it definitely would.

 

One thing I like about threadshitters is that it helps me figure out who I don't want to trade with, depending on how they present their shit.

Also, I get the impression that it's rarely people who are very active on the forums who get threadshit on unless it's a ridiculous post, but rather people who seem to stick to ISO:FT and ignore the rest of the site. Not sure if that means anything, just a curious, potentially false observation.

 

Exactly...I don't get it why the trade forum isn't in order of time posted and then replies are set to not bump the thread. Its the best compromise if you ask me and gets rid of that whole 1st paragraph I quoted from you as a valid point,

 

I'll be the first to admit that I actually enjoyed the "no response" ISO/FT forums. I NEVER had an issue getting trades done. To me, taking it away didn't change how I went about things even a little. When I had questions, or others had them for me, we sent BM's. Even now I send conversations instead of responding publicly. I ask other to do the same in my ISO/FT's. I generally don't revisit my own ISO/FT's after I've posted them. The way I see it, it's a classified ad. I put it out there, you come find me if you have questions or want to do business. Now...if I wanted someone's opinion on a trade, I went to the Beer Trading General/Help forum (hey, imagine that), and I'd start a thread there. Novel idea. Solicit opinions in a place designed to do so. At any rate, I've still had people reply endlessly to threads I've created despite requesting people direct any questions or comments to me in private. Some folks enjoy knowing their opinion can be seen by all. They love that shit. Being seen/heard. I guess I feel that most people are pretty good about asking for people's opinions when they want them...such that folks don't need to give them in an unsolicited fashion. I think there's very little that's said in public, that if you really gave a shit, you couldn't just send them in private. I just feel the nature of public responses starts a shit storm...whether it's the intent or not.

"The true enemy is war itself." - von Clausewitz

 

I'm not worried about threadshitting- since no one does it to me- but I don't like it and don't fall into either of those two camps.

'HEY DOOD I got like 5 bud lights' or 'YA, for a case of rare LOL' is not pertinent information.

 

You are

<------------------------------------------------------->
this

wrong. (< is a hand)

 

I couldn't agree more with this observation. I've been complaining for the last couple weeks about how it's been difficult to land trades lately. I don't blame the new forums at all but something has changed for sure. I have been lucky enough to find some good new trading partners but it's taken much more work than it used to. Oh well and I'll keep on keeping on.

 

Fortunately there's a ton of us that created a group on Facebook for the purposes of trading. There's not much any of us have to come to the ISO/FT forum for anymore, which is nice. So truthfully, it doesn't really matter how it's set up. It's nice having a huge group stretched out across the country. It gives everyone access to most of what we're all interested in, and we're all familiar with one another. I only really post an ISO here if I can't fulfill it within our group.

Threadshitting, I think, has less to do with what's said, and more to do with who's saying it, and why. More times than not, I don't see people trying to be helpful with their comments. They just want to derail whatever the OP is attempting to carry out, in their own interest at that. I dunno. I'm a fucking adult. I simply don't feel I need a babysitter, much less a whole slough of them, monitoring, moderating, and otherwise offering up their unsolicited criticism of MY business. Some people just like the soap opera aspect. As the Beer Trades....

 

I agree with you wholeheartedly. I also think it's inherent that new traders spend some time researching and educating themselves. I think many just dive right in. I mean, experience is the best way to learn, but, if one could go about it while not having to take so many lumps.... It's not like they have a Beckett guide for beer like they do baseball cards. No Tuff Stuff. LOL Maybe there oughta be.