Threadshitting - A civil discussion…

Can you give me the dummy version of what you mean by this? I haven't read many of those threads, so I don't really know.

And I've definitely seen threads/posts talking about people who do care about the bunches of dumb ISOs; it doesn't bother you, and I don't think it'd bother me, but there are plenty of people who do think that's an issue.

 

So what's the problem here, though? As shogo said, if you don't like an offer, don't take it, right?

 

no particular issue with trade value threads except that people don't seem to learn from their failed offers, leading to not-so-subtle reposting / advertising attempts. and if no one takes it, they complain about it and come up with elaborate conspiracy theories, which makes me want to slap them.

 

also, due to forum dynamics and human stupidity, they likely get their trades done because some idiot white knight sees the "unwarranted meanness" toward the OP (often by some regular poster that said white knight has external opinions about, because messageboards these days are reality show spectator shitfests), and then said white knight proceeds to give away beer to the manipulative, scumbag OP.

perhaps this is not how it goes down, but my guess is that this has happened more than once, and will happen again.

 

Ignore the troublemakers vs. stop causing trouble. I see what you're saying- and I do ignore them- but I'd rather they stop bringing gas and matches to each thread. There's literally nothing positive about it that I can see. Do you see positives from it?

The only trade value I'd say is what the bottle costs, honestly. I don;t think you can pin down a trade value for one beat. I have a beat- what's it worth? What can I get for it, roughly?

 

the tiers are enormous (shelf beer, seasonal limited release / brewery only release, impossible to get whale), with fine grain only occurring at the very top (in which case the people involved are veterans and don't need to ask about trade value).

what's irrational is asking about value in the first place, rather than using the common sense that is, in fact, all that's required to determine if a trade makes sense. "oh, my lebleu didn't get me BCBS rare? i don't want to go higher, so i'll try again in a few weeks." or maybe, "oh, my lebleu didn't get me BCBS rare? i guess i need to offer more."

looking at situations like that and thinking "if only i had my Trade Value Calculator, i could get the secret answer in no time!" is far from rational. it's silly and emotional (it's plainly guided by "i want X Y and Z but don't know how to get it, TELL ME WAHHHHH!"). maybe if you're really new you'll be worried about offending people or making your reputation or something, but it shouldn't take long to realize that you'll get further just privately negotiating / learning from experience than you will looking for the Secret Formula (which absolutely does not exist).

 

I mean, this is lame if that was the OP's goal. But otherwise, isn't it just people doing what they want with their beer? That's what most of the recent posts on this page would seem to advocate, right?

 

If I may take a different slant on this;

I completely enjoy ThreadScheiße because it is absolutely freaking hilarious. I have met 10 or less people on this entire site, which is out of hundreds I know by 'screename'. And there comments, retorts, opinions, rants, tempers, sarcastic remarks, defends, and the like let me in on the real pesron behind a tiny picture on the screen.

The way a person shows themselves in the beginning, middle and end of a ThreadScheiße lets me know the person in a different way. For instance, if someone makes a sarcastic remark about a thread and him another BA'er or two get into it, not only is usully effing hilarious but how they argue, and most important how they finish the arguement lets me get to know the person behind a cool avatar by seeing their hot buttons and stances on certain issues.

The ThreadScheiße allows BAer's to be human beings with opinions, feelings, thoughts, sides, and all. Plus it sets a sort of pecking order.

Now if there are people who are so super insecure, who can't see the bigger picture, well then I guess it will never be allowed back in. But as for me, it is more entertaining than anything. And I always enjoy a good laugh. Promote 'em all I say!! Because this is true - if you haven't gotten a blow-job from a superior officer, well, you're just letting the best in life pass you by.

 

I'm pretty sure we're on the Beat scale now.

 

I'm not saying to pin it down. But it goes for more than a Bud Light and less than an M, right? More than a Sam Smith's Oatmeal Stout and less than a King Henry, right?

 

well if that's your idea of 'market value' I would say that's the least effective valuation scale I've ever heard of.

 

I get a kick out of them, too. But that doesn't mean there can't be other concerns, of course.

 

I think we've moved on to benchpresses, but I can't say for sure.

 

I'm not a frequent trader. But with a little more time and effort, you have to know that you can get a pretty close idea. Sure it can fluctuate some, but there's a range of offers with a reasonable likelihood of acceptance.

You know that's the case, too. People don't just trade willy-nilly $-4-$ when there are hard-to-find beers involved. I don't know why you're fighting this so hard.

You don't have to call it market value, but I don't see how you can't acknowledge that it exists. I think RandomName7 says it well in post #124.

 

trying to manipulate stupid people to take sides in a flamewar on BA and subsequently send you beer they wouldn't otherwise send... yes, it is "people doing what they want with their beer." it's also a clear indicator that the person is a piece of shit, and it's very appropriate for them to be insulted / criticized when they post.

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as usual, trading is simple. threadshitting... a lot of it is sort of an empirical question(s) that you'd need to pay more attention to the boards than i do to answer. e.g. "how much does threadshitting decrease visibility of other normal trade offers?" i mean, if the constant flamewar bumping means that someone's "FT: zombie dust, ISO: maine beer co. zoe" thread is on the front page for 40 minutes instead of 50 minutes, that element of "stop threadshitting, disallow replies!" argument is not valid anymore, at least in my opinion.

it's also good for the community to discourage people from organized attempts at influencing value, etc etc, but a lot of that stuff really depends on actual impact. it takes, again just in my opinion, a lot of serious stuff to move questions like this out of opinion/preference land and into actual ethical question-land or site moderation requirement-land.

 

That's exactly what I do. Ask anyone I've traded cantillonz like fou foune(s) to. Or 10+ yr. gueuze to. Or kaberts to. Or Kate The Great to. Or Captain Lawrence rarities to. All of those trades have been "well, put together a box, I'll make one too, and it'll be groovy."

Not everyone's out to stick it to the other guy. That's the point I'm fighting hard to make.

 

I agree that it's lame, but that is also what about 70% of those threads are/become. It (IMO) has helped lead to an inflated sense of value for many beers because the OP has been able to successfully negotiate his low offer publicly, making others think they should be able to make the same trade.

I think it's caused a bit of a spiral out of control in the current ISO:FT forum where every new release seems to have an inflated value. There are still reasonable people out there, but they're harder to find with everyone still seemingly recovering from the short trade forum hiatus with no posting limits.

Best to just find some regular trading partners with some trades for locals and figure out limited releases from there

 

We're all grown ups on here. If 2 (or more) get into it, then it's up to them to work it out. The question is then, where is the line. Talking about someone's mom or sister may be hurtful to one and not another, religion, politics, status in society.

It's the hot buttons that are the concerns. And it seemed before, we did a pretty good job self-policing ourselves. But it also seems, instead of dealing with it at all, it was easier just to get rid of it all together. I soooooo have a comment I'm not going to make about this.




But really really want to.

 

Just to clarify, when I said "otherwise," I meant if/when the OP isn't deliberately trying to manipulate people. But I agree with you if they are, certainly.
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I absolutely agree, and one my first posts in this topic mentioned this very point. I was trying to frame the argument, and what you mention seems to be (one of?) the legitimately concrete results of threadshitting and/or bad threads being posted. Of course, if threadshitting really does educate, then it should be expected to limit the stupid threads. Alternatively, if people expect to get based for stupid threads, then that should also limit them. (Perhaps that also scares off potentially good traders, but that doesn't mean it can't also "alleviate" one "problem," i.e. too many bad threads.

I would agree with this, as well. But the people who are arguing that there is no value to pin down can't then turn around and be mad at threadshitting for this reason. And the people who argue that it's just beer and we should just trade our own beer and not care what deals other people can't, also can't be mad at threadshitting for this reason.

I don't know the right answer, but I do see a lot of inconsistency/intellectual dishonesty in this thread.

 

That's fantastic, and I hope that there are lots of people like you. But that's not the case for everyone. I don't have such fantastic beers, unfortunately. And I don't have a lot of money to fill a box like that. Maybe I shouldn't trade then, and maybe the trade forums were mostly full of people like you in the past. I can't speak to that.

But most trades now seem to get done with people exchanging roughly equal values, in whatever way they determine that, plus throwing in whatever extras. This is especially so with new traders who don't have the rapport with other veterans.