Three Tier System Gone Wrong

Brawleys, your feelings are totally valid. I get it. But why not let us make it up to you somehow rather than boycott us indefinitely? If you have an idea how we could do so when we hit NC next year, shoot me a BM and we'll talk it over. Best, Gregg B.

P.S. I should point out that the Total Wine program did work out. This was the best case scenario. We did well with them, but have grown to where we can develop states such as NC traditionally. They expected this to happen one day. We hoped it would.

 

I'm just gonna go ahead and help ya' out here brother....Not gonna happen.... Mike's kind of a stick to his guns kinda guy, that's why we love him!

The one thing you missed in North Carolina is that small independent shops like us ARE the way that you grow your brand Especially if you are small and new. If you "exclusive" one of the big box stores than you cut out the majority of the consumer base....NC is a little different than most states in that regard....and thank God....Our customers care about shopping with the little guy because we bust our humps to take care of them and they don't have to deal with a 17 year old kid behind a cash register (no offense to you guys who aren't 17). The point is it's understandable that you wanted to grow your brand by selling it all, knowing it was going to total wines (to sit on shelves until death), just to make sure you got it all out, but the cool thing about this state is that we have a ton of retailers (like a TON of retailers) that actually take the time to build your brand, and you would still have been able to get all your product out. You could have avoided independent retailers from feeling slighted, and helped build your brand...as of now I am pretty sure that you are going to spend your first 6 months of opening to the state going around being the "Sorry" guy. Just throwin' it out there, good luck in your opening of the state

Chris

 

The one thing you missed in North Carolina is that small independent shops like us ARE the way that you grow your brand Especially if you are small and new. ...as of now I am pretty sure that you are going to spend your first 6 months of opening to the state going around being the "Sorry" guy. Just throwin' it out there, good luck in your opening of the state

Chris[/QUOTE]

Well, this thread has been hijacked, but here goes.

Five years ago I was miserable. I sat behind a desk and pushed buttons, helping to manage a wine distribution company under the thumb of my father. As a fourth generation business that developed from a meat cart, to a grocery store, to a retail wine and spirits shop, to a wine distribution company, I was lost. Craft beer opened the first industry door I wanted to walk through. I fell in love with the product and immersed myself in the culture. The walls of bombers in the better beer stores were like shrines to me.

Initially, I tried to find breweries to represent in Massachusetts, but no one I was interested in wanted to come to MA or to work with a company trying to start a beer division. When I had the epiphany that perhaps I could start a brand, it took six months to find a home. Then my father tried to stop me, as he was legitimately afraid the beer business was too difficult. Standing my ground, I took eight thousand dollars and made batch one of Hoppy Feet. 300 cases and 10 kegs. I was concerned that I might need to give the beer away and let the dream die, but Hoppy Feet took off. Suddenly some folks wanted to know what was coming next.

Clown Shoes started as a bomber brand out of necessity. We couldn’t even afford plates to make boxes and 12 oz carriers, let alone front the enormous cost of purchasing the associated packaging. A year into business I realized Clown Shoes might be able to grow, but not with just distributing bombers to MA. This is why we expanded early. Too early in some ways, but I had no cash and really wanted to get out from behind that desk where I was stuck.

North Carolina retailers, you are correct to point out that you have a much greater power than Total Wine to grow a brand. Three and half years ago, we weren’t ready for you. I was alone. I did everything from coordinating production, creating marketing, selling, travel, to organizing shipments and stacking pallets. Even now, our office is just four guys in a room and one guy in the warehouse.

Total Wine offered the opportunity to move significant volume of bombers without the insane layers of compliance, which they took care of, and we did not need to spend the money and energy required by a traditional distribution channel. Nationally, we were like an infant on a respirator. Total Wine helped us to survive and stabilize, and now that we have, they are acting honorably, letting us go without rancor.

We won’t enter NC and be the I’m sorry guys. We won’t apologize for having been with Total Wine, as they are an important part of why we are still around and are healthy.

What we will do is ask for a chance.

Customers in NC have been reaching out to us for years, eager for the day when they can buy our product at bars, restaurants, and at a much wider group of retail shops.

In any market, at this point, winning the respect of the retailers, on premise owners, and their customers is the correct way to survive for Clown Shoes Beer. That is why we are leaving Total Wine in all states in terms of exclusivity.

We don’t take a single thing for granted. There are no guarantees. Our goal is to constantly improve and work hard to deserve a spot. To this extent, we have been refining recipes for years while getting better at barrel aging and experimental projects. Improving at working with traditional wholesalers and putting feet on the street in our top markets has been another area of focus.

Ok... all this from me, a guy that prefers brevity? Let me wrap it up.

Clown Shoes Beer has been an unexpected and phenomenal shift in life for me and many of the team. We haven’t done everything right. Far from it. But we are honest and accountable and very much want to do the right things over time in the craft beer community.

We know we must earn our place.

Thank you for your consideration. For now, I will check out of this conversation, as it is one that will be revisited next year when we talk to NC retailers, bar owners, and wholesalers in great depth. We’d like to find a reasonable plan to sell Clown Shoes into NC, but will make a final judgment at that time.

North Carolina retailers , restaurant/bar owners, and consumers: it’s in your hands. We’d appreciate a shot.

 

[/QUOTE]

Well, this thread has been hijacked, but here goes.

Five years ago I was miserable. I sat behind a desk and pushed buttons, helping to manage a wine distribution company under the thumb of my father. As a fourth generation business that developed from a meat cart, to a grocery store, to a retail wine and spirits shop, to a wine distribution company, I was lost. Craft beer opened the first industry door I wanted to walk through. I fell in love with the product and immersed myself in the culture. The walls of bombers in the better beer stores were like shrines to me.

Initially, I tried to find breweries to represent in Massachusetts, but no one I was interested in wanted to come to MA or to work with a company trying to start a beer division. When I had the epiphany that perhaps I could start a brand, it took six months to find a home. Then my father tried to stop me, as he was legitimately afraid the beer business was too difficult. Standing my ground, I took eight thousand dollars and made batch one of Hoppy Feet. 300 cases and 10 kegs. I was concerned that I might need to give the beer away and let the dream die, but Hoppy Feet took off. Suddenly some folks wanted to know what was coming next.

Clown Shoes started as a bomber brand out of necessity. We couldn’t even afford plates to make boxes and 12 oz carriers, let alone front the enormous cost of purchasing the associated packaging. A year into business I realized Clown Shoes might be able to grow, but not with just distributing bombers to MA. This is why we expanded early. Too early in some ways, but I had no cash and really wanted to get out from behind that desk where I was stuck.

North Carolina retailers, you are correct to point out that you have a much greater power than Total Wine to grow a brand. Three and half years ago, we weren’t ready for you. I was alone. I did everything from coordinating production, creating marketing, selling, travel, to organizing shipments and stacking pallets. Even now, our office is just four guys in a room and one guy in the warehouse.

Total Wine offered the opportunity to move significant volume of bombers without the insane layers of compliance, which they took care of, and we did not need to spend the money and energy required by a traditional distribution channel. Nationally, we were like an infant on a respirator. Total Wine helped us to survive and stabilize, and now that we have, they are acting honorably, letting us go without rancor.

We won’t enter NC and be the I’m sorry guys. We won’t apologize for having been with Total Wine, as they are an important part of why we are still around and are healthy.

What we will do is ask for a chance.

Customers in NC have been reaching out to us for years, eager for the day when they can buy our product at bars, restaurants, and at a much wider group of retail shops.

In any market, at this point, winning the respect of the retailers, on premise owners, and their customers is the correct way to survive for Clown Shoes Beer. That is why we are leaving Total Wine in all states in terms of exclusivity.

We don’t take a single thing for granted. There are no guarantees. Our goal is to constantly improve and work hard to deserve a spot. To this extent, we have been refining recipes for years while getting better at barrel aging and experimental projects. Improving at working with traditional wholesalers and putting feet on the street in our top markets has been another area of focus.

Ok... all this from me, a guy that prefers brevity? Let me wrap it up.

Clown Shoes Beer has been an unexpected and phenomenal shift in life for me and many of the team. We haven’t done everything right. Far from it. But we are honest and accountable and very much want to do the right things over time in the craft beer community.

We know we must earn our place.

Thank you for your consideration. For now, I will check out of this conversation, as it is one that will be revisited next year when we talk to NC retailers, bar owners, and wholesalers in great depth. We’d like to find a reasonable plan to sell Clown Shoes into NC, but will make a final judgment at that time.

North Carolina retailers , restaurant/bar owners, and consumers: it’s in your hands. We’d appreciate a shot.[/QUOTE]

Funny that some of us boycott stores just like stores apparently boycott brands. I've had very poor experiences in a few stores in NC, and I just skip them now when I come into town, since they made it clear they don't sell their limited inventory to folks who aren't "regular."

I'm damned excited for Clown Shoes to come to South Carolina. I have no more problem shopping at a Total Wine than I do my local bottle shop. Funny enough that my local bottle shop understands the plight of the consumer, the plight of the small business, and the plight of the brewer.

No room for grudges in the craft beer community.

Thanks for taking the high road Gregg and looking forward to seeing more of your product down this way.

Edited for wonky quote function

 

jshusc if your gonna have steve as your pic than you must end each post with... Go Cocks! Look at those golden lochs! What a guy!

Clown Shoes...I hear ya', you sound like a great guy, we're spoiled here in NC. We are fortunate enough to have loads of fantastic breweries that have very similar starts, and it has taken most of them a lot of heartache to get to were they are (see for Reference Olde Hickory, Foothills, Mother Earth, Green Man....and the list continues literally daily) and they all took the path which worked out best for them, which thank goodness for us, was through the little guys. We grew together, so we have developed a loyalty to them that has worked out well for them (mind you this is not just North Carolina Breweries), as we will continue to push their product. I don't know that there will be a boycott by any means, but I can assure you that loyalty has not been developed with your brand (please don't take offense, just pointing it out). Remember as small independent shops that have been around for a long time, we've scratched and clawed our way up too, so we hear ya', but it just might take some time before we really support ya'. I'm sure you'll get your chance, we're not all stubborn jerks (just most of us!). I look forward to meeting you when your making your rounds,and again (genuinely), good luck with your entrance into the state

Chris

 

To refuse to sell a brand because they did what was necessary for them to survive and compete is silly. There have been many exclusive deals with TW, not all went well, but TW does have the money to funnel behind a brewery that a small independent store doesn't. Don't get me wrong, I would never set foot in a TW, but if their money can help get a good brewery into a market where no one was willing to give them a chance or try to force insane restrictions or contracts on them, then TW isn't all evil. I wouldn't have known about Clown Shoes without first hearing word about them from a TW shopper, who later became our customer for us being able to buy their beers through Quality. I think and hope General will do as good a job or better at keeping the brand available and I anxiously await new stuff from Clown Shoes, you guys are doing a great job for being small, young, and new at the game. If I had a case of Billionaire I'd be the happiest guy around.

 

Love Billionaire and Clown Shoes. I would harbor no animosity towards any company doing what they have to do in order to survive. I understand on both ends, but this appears to be a classy and well represented brand and I wish y'all the best of luck..

 

So to recap....

TW not all bad.

Buy a bottle of Clown Shoes next time I am at the store.

Find somewhere else to buy bottles when in NC....maybe just stop at the total wine.

 

Right, and to small store owners, not supporting brands that were previously exclusive to someone else is 'doing what they have to do in order to survive' as they want to try and discourage that going forward. It sounds like TW worked out great for Clown Shoes, but if every small brewery decided to expand that way small stores would have a hard time sticking around.

I know of at least one store, and I'm guessing there are many more, that generally doesn't sell beer that's in the grocery stores. They can't compete on price with large grocery stores that look at beer as mostly a loss-leader and don't need to make their entire profit on it in order to stay in business. They'll gladly tell people that are looking for a specific beer that's in the grocery stores that's why they don't carry it and its cheaper at the grocery store than they could sell it. Yes, they give FAR superior service than the grocery store, but that's just not always looked for by customers. Plus most of the stuff in the grocery stores at the moment in NC (or at least widely in the grocery stores) is a lot of the crossover/'entry-level' stuff (not a knock at all, its awesome stuff) and we have other options for that anyway if someone is interested in crossing over.

ETA: Which isn't to say I won't be supporting @ClownShoesDreams . Get a decent bit of it when I travel to Minneapolis, love their stuff, plan on buying it in NC when I can get it (live nowhere near a TW, and don't shop there for beer when I am near one). Have some Billionaire on my cellar shelves right now. But I do understand @brawleys position.

 

Its an interesting conversation at the very least. I always love threads that give me some insight into the business end of things. In the end, it seems like a shame that two small businesses that are not competitors end up pitted against each other somehow, and it doesn't seem like either has done anything "wrong". I think the ideal solution would be if small retailers could find a way to discourage new brands from entering into exclusivity contracts without penalizing the brand. Maybe form some sort of small-retailers association that offers similar contracts to new brands? Exclusive to the stores in the association.

 

Well, this thread has been hijacked, but here goes.

Five years ago I was miserable. I sat behind a desk and pushed buttons, helping to manage a wine distribution company under the thumb of my father. As a fourth generation business that developed from a meat cart, to a grocery store, to a retail wine and spirits shop, to a wine distribution company, I was lost. Craft beer opened the first industry door I wanted to walk through. I fell in love with the product and immersed myself in the culture. The walls of bombers in the better beer stores were like shrines to me.

Initially, I tried to find breweries to represent in Massachusetts, but no one I was interested in wanted to come to MA or to work with a company trying to start a beer division. When I had the epiphany that perhaps I could start a brand, it took six months to find a home. Then my father tried to stop me, as he was legitimately afraid the beer business was too difficult. Standing my ground, I took eight thousand dollars and made batch one of Hoppy Feet. 300 cases and 10 kegs. I was concerned that I might need to give the beer away and let the dream die, but Hoppy Feet took off. Suddenly some folks wanted to know what was coming next.

Clown Shoes started as a bomber brand out of necessity. We couldn’t even afford plates to make boxes and 12 oz carriers, let alone front the enormous cost of purchasing the associated packaging. A year into business I realized Clown Shoes might be able to grow, but not with just distributing bombers to MA. This is why we expanded early. Too early in some ways, but I had no cash and really wanted to get out from behind that desk where I was stuck.

North Carolina retailers, you are correct to point out that you have a much greater power than Total Wine to grow a brand. Three and half years ago, we weren’t ready for you. I was alone. I did everything from coordinating production, creating marketing, selling, travel, to organizing shipments and stacking pallets. Even now, our office is just four guys in a room and one guy in the warehouse.

Total Wine offered the opportunity to move significant volume of bombers without the insane layers of compliance, which they took care of, and we did not need to spend the money and energy required by a traditional distribution channel. Nationally, we were like an infant on a respirator. Total Wine helped us to survive and stabilize, and now that we have, they are acting honorably, letting us go without rancor.

We won’t enter NC and be the I’m sorry guys. We won’t apologize for having been with Total Wine, as they are an important part of why we are still around and are healthy.

What we will do is ask for a chance.

Customers in NC have been reaching out to us for years, eager for the day when they can buy our product at bars, restaurants, and at a much wider group of retail shops.

In any market, at this point, winning the respect of the retailers, on premise owners, and their customers is the correct way to survive for Clown Shoes Beer. That is why we are leaving Total Wine in all states in terms of exclusivity.

We don’t take a single thing for granted. There are no guarantees. Our goal is to constantly improve and work hard to deserve a spot. To this extent, we have been refining recipes for years while getting better at barrel aging and experimental projects. Improving at working with traditional wholesalers and putting feet on the street in our top markets has been another area of focus.

Ok... all this from me, a guy that prefers brevity? Let me wrap it up.

Clown Shoes Beer has been an unexpected and phenomenal shift in life for me and many of the team. We haven’t done everything right. Far from it. But we are honest and accountable and very much want to do the right things over time in the craft beer community.

We know we must earn our place.

Thank you for your consideration. For now, I will check out of this conversation, as it is one that will be revisited next year when we talk to NC retailers, bar owners, and wholesalers in great depth. We’d like to find a reasonable plan to sell Clown Shoes into NC, but will make a final judgment at that time.

North Carolina retailers , restaurant/bar owners, and consumers: it’s in your hands. We’d appreciate a shot.[/QUOTE]

Funny that some of us boycott stores just like stores apparently boycott brands. I've had very poor experiences in a few stores in NC, and I just skip them now when I come into town, since they made it clear they don't sell their limited inventory to folks who aren't "regular."

I'm damned excited for Clown Shoes to come to South Carolina. I have no more problem shopping at a Total Wine than I do my local bottle shop. Funny enough that my local bottle shop understands the plight of the consumer, the plight of the small business, and the plight of the brewer.

No room for grudges in the craft beer community.

Thanks for taking the high road Gregg and looking forward to seeing more of your product down this way.

Edited for wonky quote function[/QUOTE]


For the record, Clown Shoes has been available in SC for a long time now- at Total Wine!

Good luck in your endeavors @ClownShoesDreams, sounds like you will be with Bev South and Comer in my territory!

 

Indeed on Clown Shoes in SC, but I would assume (incorrectly perhaps), that a general distribution agreement would more likely open up some of the more limited CS releases, eh? Could be wrong though.

 

I would think so! Plus draft too