Three Tier System

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by cpinto6, Apr 3, 2012.

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  1. cpinto6

    cpinto6 Initiate (0) Feb 25, 2010 Georgia

    I was thinking about this and it seems to me like it was created to deal with the big breweries/distilleries ways of handling business. Wineries seem to have gotten an exception on it, my guess is because demand outpaces supply and they're not slitting each others throats for customers.

    Craft breweries I'd say are in that same situation and take it a step further. There seems to be great camaraderie between breweries with all the collaborations going on, sam adams lending money to other breweries, the help the alchemist received with their tragedy and so on. It seems to me like the three tier system is useless and does more harm than good when it comes to craft. I was wondering if you guys think its a possibility that if all the craft breweries band together, they can lobby for an exception for them like wineries have by educating the lawmakers on what the craft brewing mentality is. Like by examples like the ones I stated above and by facts like how demand is so far ahead of supply that craft breweries won't be butting heads anytime soon.

    Thoughts? Sorry if this has been discussed before.
     
  2. OneBeertoRTA

    OneBeertoRTA Initiate (0) Jan 2, 2010 California

    Go check out the documentary Beer Wars if you already haven't. The beer distributors are the #1 lobbyists in the country in terms of total contributions.

    The spirits industry also faces the same 3 tier system. Fortunately, alcohol has always been margin heavy, even after years of federal, state and local excise tax increases. Most distributors are private companies that dwarf their suppliers in terms of revenue and lobbyist muscle. If there was ever a time to challenge the system it will be in the near future with a band of Craft brothers. Just look at Wa state, just recently they disbanded the state owned control regulations in favor of open state much like CA. Who's next, Oregon?
     
  3. jesskidden

    jesskidden Grand Pooh-Bah (3,145) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    The existence of brewpubs in every state in the union IS already an exception to Three Tier Laws (and in most states, new regulations had to be enacted to allow them in the past 3 decades). Nearly 2/3's of the states also allow some form of self-distribution (in some it's restricted to small breweries only), and many allow some retail sales at breweries, etc. Not too familar with the wine industry, but whatever exceptions to the Three Tier exist for them would be similar to the above and limited to in-state sales- out of state wineries still go through the wholesale tier.
     
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  4. maltmaster420

    maltmaster420 Initiate (0) Aug 17, 2005 Oregon

    It's far from useless. Outside of the largest breweries like Sierra Nevada and BBC, none of them have the logisitical networks capable of distributing their beer outside of their local regions. Without the purchasing power of the large distributors keeping shipping costs down you'd see a lot less beer from outside your region on the shelves, or it would be considerably more expensive.

    I don't have time to fully get into right now, but to clear up one point: The "Three Tier system" isn't some single monolithic invention created by the federal government. It's fifty different systems designed by fifty different states that have varying degrees of exemptions regarding issues like whether or not breweries can self-distribute, whether they can operate production facilities as well as a brewpub, whether breweries can also own distributorships, whether they can sell beer to go from their brewpub, and many other things.

    In short, other than setting label requirements and approving said labels, very little alcohol regulation happens on the federal level, so you have to petition all fifty states to fix the things you think are broken.

    The only two things that are truly broken about the system are:

    ~Most of them are affiliated with one of the mega brewers and are thus compelled to push their products.
    ~Restrictive contracts that make it stupidly expensive for a brewery to switch distributors once they've signed on with one.

    There's only so much you can do about the first point, because even if the distributor doesn't carry any BMC products they're inevitably going to have one customer that becomes larger than the others in their portfolio and will throw their weight around to ensure that their products get prime placement. The second point needs addressing, but it's a tough balancing act because if distributor A puts in years of effort building a brand they should be entitled to some compensation from distributor B who is basically being handed a a bunch of tap handles and store placements that they didn't have work for but will immediately profit from. The only question is what's fair for all parties, and at the moment the balance seems to be tilted in favor of distributor A.
     
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  5. maltmaster420

    maltmaster420 Initiate (0) Aug 17, 2005 Oregon

    Considering that the OLCC is one of only two profit-generating agencies in the Oregon government (the lottery being the other) I don't see this happening any time soon.
     
  6. OneBeertoRTA

    OneBeertoRTA Initiate (0) Jan 2, 2010 California

    Bwahahahaha. Gotta love state gumbints...
     
  7. GregoryVII

    GregoryVII Initiate (0) Jan 30, 2006 Michigan

    Yes, the laws were set up originally to protect distributors from Big Brewers. That said, it isn't all bad having people focused on selling the beer so the brewers can focus on brewing it. And some of the small brewer/distributor relationships are pretty solid, so it's hard to paint with a broad brush here. Check out this article about Short's Brewing and Imperial Beverage:

    http://allaboutbeer.com/daily-pint/...brewing-cites-partnership-as-fuel-for-growth/
     
  8. maltmaster420

    maltmaster420 Initiate (0) Aug 17, 2005 Oregon

    Yeah, there are definitely positive aspect of the system. For example Ninkasi had no problem achieving 90% saturation at bars in Eugene, but there's no way they would have been able achieve that statewide with draft distribution (much less selling bottles to every podunk corner store in rural Oregon) without the help of a big ass distributor with a hundred sales people and a fleet of trucks.
     
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  9. BBThunderbolt

    BBThunderbolt Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,846) Sep 24, 2007 Kiribati
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    And, IIRC, the Three Tier system was a response to the old "Tied House" system, where breweries would either own or lend money to bars, with the string being that the bars only poured the breweries beer. If ABI were able to own, or be tied to, bars now, how much MillerCoors would be poured, let alone craft?
     
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  10. cpinto6

    cpinto6 Initiate (0) Feb 25, 2010 Georgia

    Thanks for the recommendation...any site you know of that I'll find it off the top of your head so I don't have to search?

    I knew what you're saying and your statement about a band of Craft brothers is exactly what I meant. Isn't the three tier thing a federal law? If every brewery in the country unites I'm sure they could change it for craft breweries. Oregon probably is on the heels of Wa with that though.
     
  11. OneBeertoRTA

    OneBeertoRTA Initiate (0) Jan 2, 2010 California

    Netflix had Beer Wars on instant que for a long while. It is a phenomenal documentary I'm confident every BA member would love it.

    Correct - The three tier system is a federal law. My comment on WA was about the state level laws. I'm not sure if it applies to beer but in spirits, around 15 states are called "control" where you have to sell through the state at fixed prices or at designated stores. These state laws are why some states (Utah, Washington, Oregon, Idaho) are not permitted to sell in certain channels (i.e. grocery stores, gas stations, big box stores like Costco) or whether or not they can be sold on certain days like Sunday or contain ABV limits.
     
  12. cpinto6

    cpinto6 Initiate (0) Feb 25, 2010 Georgia

    I'm not sure it would be a good idea to do it like the wine world given how the craft world is right now...it would be even worse of a shitstorm to acquire something but basically they ship direct to consumers. With highly sought after wineries its pretty much memberships that have wait lists to get into that are long as hell and you have to purchase the full allotment.

    But yea I'm talking about self distribution and just being able to sell your damn bottles at your brewery instead of having to sell them to a distributor that then sells it to the consumers even though some of those consumers could throw a rock from their house and hit the brewery with it.
     
  13. cpinto6

    cpinto6 Initiate (0) Feb 25, 2010 Georgia

    Exactly...so I'm wondering why craft breweries haven't bundled together to exempt themselves from the three tier law. It wasn't created for breweries like them. They'd probably still have to use distributors to get out of their state or even city but at least for their home turf they could do without them and it would be their choice whether they wanna invest in a distribution network of their own or leave things to a distributor...
     
  14. jesskidden

    jesskidden Grand Pooh-Bah (3,145) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader


    More that half the states allow breweries to self-distribute already. State Self-Distribution Laws But according to most sources, even in those states most breweries, especially once they get to a certain size and have a proven sales record, choose to go with distributors. Most breweries want to brew beer, not run warehouse, trucking and delivery services and it's just more cost effective for a distributor to delivery 50 cases of beer from 10 different brewers on one truck, than to have 12 different breweries vans out supplying 5 cases each to stores.
     
  15. Hanzo

    Hanzo Initiate (0) Feb 27, 2012 Virginia

    I just want to live in an America where I can go to a brewery's website and buy all the beer I want from them.
     
  16. chcfan

    chcfan Initiate (0) Oct 29, 2008 California

    Most retail products have a similar system to the three tier one that beer uses. The three tier system is not the reason that PtE is not available at every grocery store. Do we have examples of how it hurts craft and of brewers that are longing to buy trucking fleets so they can self-deliver across multiple states?
     
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  17. andylipp

    andylipp Savant (1,063) Dec 8, 2006 Massachusetts

    I guess there are exceptions to this, especially once a brewer has grown to a certain size. Stone's distribution arm is supposedly way more profitable than the brewery side of their operation (or so I was told during the brewery tour).
     
  18. jesskidden

    jesskidden Grand Pooh-Bah (3,145) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader


    Thus the use of "Most" in my post :wink: (big believer in CYA) and as I understand it, Stone's wholesale subsidiary, Stone Distributing Co., is not simply a case of their self-distributing only their own brand, it's more along the line of other mutli-brand wholesalers.

    So, (using my example above) basically the same business model of one truck delivering 50 cases of various brewers' brands - simply in their case that company is owned by a brewery. According to this, they distributed for 18 different breweries in 2009.
     
  19. cpinto6

    cpinto6 Initiate (0) Feb 25, 2010 Georgia

    Also when a brewer is anal about trusting distributors with not mishandling their beer.
     
  20. cpinto6

    cpinto6 Initiate (0) Feb 25, 2010 Georgia

    That's exactly what I'd think would happen...the big craft breweries help the little guys. Every brewery doesn't need their own distribution network.
     
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