Threes Brewing in Brooklyn?

With you on this. It's not like the lot is neglected by anybody but themselves... they own the lot behind the brewery. I'm confused.

 

This would be nice. The "neglected lot" is their private backyard and was in pretty decent condition before they opened. "We think that building an amazing green hub within our community will provide a much needed space for our neighborhood while also acting a symbol for responsible manufacturing in our area." Again. This is their private backyard. Not a community garden.

 

Exactly this. Even moreso than the fact that this is a seemingly successful business asking for a handout, it's the apparent disingenuity of this campaign that rubs me the wrong way. Using warm fuzzy phrases like "green hub within our community" and "responsible manufacturing" to describe what is simply a build-out of the space available to their paying customers is disingenuous.

I've spent a disproportionate time thinking about this since @joehill posted it yesterday, and I hate to say it, but the more I think about it, the more it turns me off to Threes broadly.

Edit: I will again note that if there is a nuance to this campaign that somehow makes it more palatable, but isn't being made clear, then it would be great if Threes clarified.

 

@ThreesBrewing , I been reading the above posts about your latest Kickstarter for your backyard space. You've been quiet so far. @joehill @t8000shx @Hirshi @underwater_ , raise very valid points. Nobody has tagged you, so I'm doing it now to give you a chance to respond directly. I think your fans and patrons deserve an explanation / clarification asap. Thanks.

 

So, given that the area they are talking about is the backyard attached to their bar, the idea of people funding an up and running business to build a community garden that will make Threes more attractive and generate more revenue for them seems shaky at best. Do they plan on sharing the increased profits that result from the enhanced space with their backers?

If they were looking to build a community garden that didn't need to be accessed through Threes this sounds like a good idea.

At best, this campaign is a positive attempt to enrich the local community. At worst it is a slick, thinly veiled, marketing campaign with all the nice video, animation, and marketing buzzwords to put a very positive spin on a plan to make more profits. I am not really sure which it is. One thing though that slick video really turns me off, they should have taken the money invested to produce it and use that money to seed the funding for the project.

I have mixed feelings on Kickstarter in general. If an entity can generate funds while giving backers something substantial, it has a good use. But other times it feels like a gift. In the old days people would take loans, save their money, give investors a % of the business, etc. Now we have people looking for handouts to fund their for profit businesses.

 

First off, thank you all for the candor - we appreciate your perspective, as well as the opportunity to clarify our intentions, which we'll attempt to do here by directly responding to your comments:

@joehill said:

@t8000shx said,

As @t8000shx noted, we are doing this for "patrons of our community" - this was not an edit, it has been the focus of the project since we conceived it.

Among the reasons we are doing this campaign is because we believe it will help make the bar more aesthetically and environmentally friendly. Keep in mind though, our space is not just a bar. Many people (possibly you guys) have been there at night or weekends when that's the case, but we also open at 7am every day as a coffee shop - via our friends at Ninth Street Espresso.

If you've ever been there in the morning or early afternoon, you've seen how many people in the neighborhood are parked there for meetings, with their laptops, etc. We've had folks tell us that they quit their co-working space because they park at Threes every day. While we are absolutely a private business, we'd still like to enrich the day-to-day experience for all people, day and night, that visit our place.

@joehill said,

We would LOVE to offer beer as a reward (we're a brewery after all), however, offering alcohol as a reward on Kickstarter is explicitly forbidden: https://www.kickstarter.com/rules/prohibited

@Hirshi said,

We don't own the lot, we rent the building. It has been our intention to try to make this a place with trees and plants from the day we moved in, but the project got delayed and we don't have the funds to do it on our own. We're simply asking patrons if they'd like to contribute to us accelerating this plan.

@joehill said,

@t8000shx said,

It's great that from the outside we appear to have *made it.* We couldn't be happier about our early success, though please remember that we are a four month old, family run, small business. As you can imagine, an operation of this scale has some pretty hefty costs associated with it as well. Which leads to...

@t8000shx said,

and...

The first point about downsizing or waiting is totally fair and one that isn't lost on us. We'll accept that we're impatient because we'd like to be able to execute on this now. The fact that Kickstarter exists gives us the hope to try.

We do take exception to the second comment though. Kickstarter is not about asking for free handouts - it is a crowdsourcing site that can serve as a unifying platform for people that want to support a project creator's goal. There are all sorts of projects there created by folks ranging from small artists to well known creators (Spike Lee, Neil Young, etc) to thousands of other businesses trying to improve something about their offering/space/etc. This is simply a means for us to try to get our plan going sooner than we otherwise would be able to.

Threes Brewing is not a charity and we are not trying to mislead anyone with our intentions. We are absolutely a for profit entity and use words like "community" and "green hub" (@underwater_) because we truly believe in them and think that this yard, if funded, will improve our neighborhood... just as we feel the community will benefit if we are successful as a business, in general - and as a brewery, in particular. Of course, you are all welcome to disagree with us, however, please accept that we are nothing if not sincere.

Also, everyone that backs the project receives some sort of reward for their patronage. If people want us to transform this yard, we'll raise the money and do it. If they don't, we won't. While we understand that you guys won't back the project, we do hope that you'll enjoy the yard nonetheless - as well as our beer.

Cheers!

PS: thanks for the heads-up, @NiceBeerCans

 

"Our space is zoned for manufacturing, which means a toxic sludge company could have moved in" - actual quote from video, emphasis mine.

ITS LIKE THEY WANT US TO HAVE AN HONEST CONVERSATION ABOUT THEIR SAISONS.

 

@NiceBeerCans Thanks for tipping off Threes to this conversation, and @ThreesBrewing thanks for replying to our concerns!

Personally, I find some of what you said helpful, while I find other parts problematic. I think we just have different philosophies on how Kickstarter should/shouldn't be used, and when actual investors (as opposed to donors) should be found. Ultimately, the success/failure of this Kickstarter campaign will be the arbiter of who's views prevail in this case. I'll clarify what I mean more (because I'm sure everyone is interested...), but first, a note about the campaign language.

I'll happily back off my earlier concern of disingenuity given your honest engagement with the BA community, but I still firmly believe the campaign language implies a far more philanthropic project than what you're actually trying to achieve. Separate from any of my concerns about using KS this way, the language used, to me, can cause genuine confusion as to the goal of the campaign. The use of the term "green space" is particularly problematic, since it has such a strong connotation in many peoples' minds with public-use gardens/parks/etc. I can't imagine you want to have donors ultimately regretting their contribution if they find out after-the-fact that the backyard isn't what they expect. Buy hey, language use is something upon which reasonable people can disagree.

My bigger concern is this:

Combined with this:

To my view, these are almost mutually exclusive views. You accept that you're impatient, and acknowledge that you could delay/shrink this project, and ostensibly bootstrap it over time from your company's earnings. If that is the case, then Kickstarter is functioning as a free handout. If you, as a functioning business (even functioning with high costs), require further investment to complete a project in the near-term due to lack of patience (which is obviously understandable), then at this point it would be far more palatable (from my view) for you to raise more money from your investors who can expect some return on that investment - or take on new investors. Maybe this would require some marginal increase in your prices - again, no issue with this. These are all decisions made as part of running a business! To me, the big issue is that you could fund this project on your own over time. I've seen KS campaigns for businesses that are near failing, and need funds to move storefronts due to massive rent hikes, or other desperate situations where a fresh infusion of no-strings cash could genuinely save a business. This is not the case with Threes.

I understand the broader use for KS, given that there is a massive lack of efficiency with regards to the "normal" way small startups/projects used to raise cash... but that's not where you guys are in the business cycle. To be clear - I'm sure you aren't pioneers in this kind of use of KS, which only means I disagree with all other businesses who have used it in such a way.

TLDR - I understand your arguments about why this is an acceptable use of KS. My views differ strongly. I still think you should change the language on your KS campaign page, though I enthusiastically retract my accusation of disingenuity, and very much appreciate you guys engaging with the BA community.

 

@jrnyc the video was a gift from a filmmaker friend of ours.

@underwater_ we are planting trees, vines and flowers to make a garden beautiful. The point was that this could be a far different (read: gross) manufacturing company, which impacts sight-lines and air quality for those directly in our vicinity. If you want to have a conversation about our Kickstarter, our saisons or anything else, we're happy to talk to you... come on by.

 

@t8000shx Thanks for taking the time to read our comments and to clarify yours.

The "What is Kickstarter is for?" argument is one that has played out publicly and privately over the last few years. We clearly have opposing views on this so hopefully we can agree to disagree on this point.

Your other comments about language are interesting, however... it didn't occur to us that people would take the campaign the way you and some others did, so that is a real concern. We'll huddle up and discuss this today assess any ambiguity in the language at all - we also have an opportunity to engage directly with backers, which we'll do. Thanks again for the feedback.

 

25$ craw-fish boil and a beer, jusayin

 

Yep, agree to disagree... although I won't promise you won't find some guy at your bar one night who's had one too many, picking arguments with the innocent bartenders about the appropriate use of Kickstarter.

Good to hear you're considering a language change. If you require any further feedback, I know a highly opinionated guy who's happy to provide some in the form of anonymous forum posts.

 

I noticed this to in the video, was turned off by this also, like they are doing the community a favor by keeping out the big bad sludge companies. That is all well and good but Threes will be profiting from this "community" garden.

Here is an idea, if this truly is a community garden, take the extra profits this outdoor space will generate and the 20k generated by the KS campaign and put it back into the community in a form of a donation.

 

There has to be a way to raise money whole offering beers, a quick search will show results about that. To me it seems like a better way to fund a brewery than with kickstarters and t-shirt rewards.

 

@joehill glad to hear the food service has gotten better. It's still a work in progress (especially w the rotating food partners) and we have a ways to go, but we're working on it. Keep the feedback coming!

 

Unfortunately, I don't think that it's likely that your idea will happen. I have another idea for Threes Brewing. How about sharing your outdoor space for regular scheduled events like an art fair, etc? Good for the community. picks up business on a slower day, and helps the struggling artists (I hear that some exist in Brooklyn ). Finback Brewery, in Queens, did some indoor art events that were wildly successful, critically acclaimed, and covered by news outlets like NY1. Other ideas, include babe events, in the daytime (for the babies and their parents), poetry reading, performance art, etc. You get the idea. No losers, just winners, and drives up your positive profile. Might even help you achieve your Kickstarter funding goal. Anyway, always impressed when you, @ThreesBrewing , take the time to answer back.

 

Coordinate with the local CSA to make Threes a pick up point.

 

@NiceBeerCans we do that sort of thing indoors all the time and, of course, plan on continuing in the yard, wherever appropriate. We have done events + exhibits with a bunch of local artists. We've also been host for several impactful non-profits in the area that share our values, including ArtsGowanus, Gowanus Conservancy and Adaptive Climbing Group. This is not to mention a bunch of fundraisers for schools in the neighborhood. We don't typically publicize these events, nor did we make specific mention on our video, because we thought it was implicit in alluding to the community around us. Also, we do this sort of thing because we believe it is our civic responsibility, not for attention in the press.

@Kanger great idea, we agree. We've been working on this and are announcing in a few days that we're going to be a pickup station for a fish CSA (http://mermaidsgardennyc.com/csf) and currently talking to some farmers about produce.

As far as our responsiveness, we'll continue to be active in this forum as long as the dialogue stays productive. At this stage, we hear the comments loud and clear on the Kickstarter - and, appreciate your thoughts on how we can make the yard an even better place. We're also happy to talk about beer here too

Thanks.

 

Maybe not as implicit as you think... Nobody should do things to get noticed in the press but it's nice when they do pick up a local feel-good story. It's disingenuous to say that you don't want to publicize these events, yet ask for support via Kickstarter. People want to have reasons to support you guys. Additionally, extra turnout for these events is not a bad thing. Anyway, glad to hear that you have been doing these events. Just wanted to give some helpful ideas. By the way, Finback Brewery did their art show just to be nice. Just want to make that clear to everybody.