Hey guys quick question. I'm new to the trading scene, and I've had one success so far, I can definitely see the addiction. Question from a newbie: how long before you get nervous someone might be a bad trader? I get nervous because this seems like it can become an expensive endeavor quickly, and I really don't want to ever get ripped off. What's the typical time frame for when you guys start to worry about the other trader not sending their share, and basically being a thief?
At least a week of NO COMMUNICATION if it's an established trader. If they stay in contact with you be patient. Life comes up and that's okay. Protect yourself when starting off by trading with established traders (i.e. 10+ trades) Always make sure to start feedback in the trade system. As a newbie you'll be responsible for shipping first for the first 5 or 10 trades(ish) That can be different depending on what you're trading for and who you're trading with
Other than "new traders ship first", I would almost always expect both parties to ship within a day or two. I've had exceptions to that, but it's uncommon, usually either because one end is an IPA that should be shipped ASAP and the other end won't have a beer in-hand for a few days (obviously, you should probably only agree to this type of thing with well-established traders), or sudden freaky weather that turns a one or two day difference into something longer (I had a number of trades this winter that took months to complete).
I have come across a few people who were a bit too laid back in shipping, and it made me uncomfortable, so now for all my trades I specify the day we are supposed to both ship. Don't get me wrong, they were all fine, I am just a particularly prompt and anal person - I am totally the guy who turns up at your door at 6:59 when you said to come over at 7... I make it part of the final trade; X, Y & Z beers, both of us shipping on specific day by 5pm and texting tracking numbers (or something like that). I have found that over time you get a sense for responsiveness and if someone is going to be slow and a bit of a pain in the arse to deal with. Thankfully I haven't had to deal with anything by great traders, but if they are slow to respond on messages and vague, then they probably ship that way too. trust your spidey senses!
There is no magic number. Every trade and trader is different and the comfort level of when the box goes out is different. It comes down to clear and quick communication between the 2 traders regarding expectations and changes. Specify a ship date and ask for tracking number. A good trade partner will either make that happen or communicate with you regarding any delay promptly, i.e the same day. As many trades as I have done, only 1 time I encountered a bad trader (who eventually made it up 6 months later), and every trade partner communicated any delay the same day or a day after agreed upon ship date. I wouldn't get worked up, but do send a reminder a day or 2 after regarding tracking number, especially if it's not an established trader. Check to see if the message is read and if the person is active (browsing threads etc.) before getting all worked up in the rare chance that something happened that he/she is unable to communicate/ship due to urgent matters. Most importantly, GET A PHONE NUMBER (and email address) in addition to having a trade request accepted BEFORE you ship. You'll need the phone number for shipping label and can use the email for automatic tracking updates.
The worst is when you keep messaging people on BA and you can see that they are actively "viewing ISO:FT page" or whatever but they aren't responding. To me, that's a red flag.
I hear this a lot, and obviously people should be reasonably responsive, but I think it ignores the reality of mobile devices. I might be quickly reading some forum posts on my phone on the bus, or in between meetings; but not really have the time to deal with trade messages, which frequently require some thought or research to answer. (Not to mention that the mobile interface is pretty terrible for posting anything, whether it's to a conversation or a forum thread.) Again, to be clear, if someone hasn't shipped, or hasn't told you they've shipped, a prompt response to a "when are you shipping?" query is reasonable to expect. But, I've also interacted with multiple people over the years who seem to think that if you don't respond to them in minutes to a trade inquiry / negotiation that it must mean you aren't interested (or are a "bad communicator"), and don't seem to get the idea that you might simply be at work, or engaged in some other life activity other than beer trading.
Communication is the answer to your question. Good communication is a must. Be clear and concise and if there will be a delay, just let the other person know. I'd rather someone told me up front that they won't be able to ship for two weeks than to hear nothing from them for a week. If you sent your box out and haven't heard back from them since you sent them your shipping info, then I would start to worry (and be kinda pissed). I have two jobs and two kids and have on more than one occasion had to wait a few days to send out a box but you can be damned sure I told the other person what was going on and also made their box so heavy they needed help getting it off the porch. Just f'ing communicate people! This goes for trading as well as everything else in life. Honesty really is an amazing thing.
There are other life activities? I guess you mean actually drinking the beer you trade for! Anyway, I should have clarified, I meant when you have already shipped your beer and you keep messaging the person and they don't respond. A quick "it will be dropped off today" or "sorry, I got tied up today, I'll ship tomorrow" goes a long way in assuring that I won't be flying across the country to light a bag of poop on your front porch.
"Don't tell me my business devil woman, call the fire department, this one's out of control" But yeah, I would do that too.
Based on some of the bad trader threads on here, a few quick BM's to local BAs who live nearby will have a fresh bag simmering on the doormat pretty much hourly... Personally I am with you - it takes 10 seconds to send a quick message and say what is up. It isn't hard, and if someone isn't showing that courtesy, then they are frankly a bad trader. Emergencies happen, but if you have time to go on BA and browse the forums, you have time to get your shit together and send a message.
Agreed. If you haven't completed the trade you're currently involved in then you should take care of that before browsing for your next victim.
Victim is a bit harsh, but I would say if you have time to hunt for your next trade but haven't got time to communicate well on existing trades your priorities are wrong and are being a dick
Lots of great feedback here, but it is really simple. In real estate - location location location. In beer trading - communication communication communication. Safest bet when you are starting out, trade with established traders. (All of this has already been mentioned above...credit given.) If you are going to take a risk and trade with whomever because you want that beer for that deal, understand it is just that - RISK. The only true POSSIBLE (never guaranteed) repercussion for a bad trader is a negative rep. For your own peace of mind, understand going in that bad trades are possible and get over it fast if it happens. That said, with 100+ trades under my belt over about 7 years, I have had one single bad trade. That is due to due diligence, keeping up relationships, minimalizing risk, and COMMUNICATION. Good luck and welcome to the bankrupting world of beer trading!
