Tipping

Discussion in 'United Kingdom & Ireland' started by Darwin553, Apr 17, 2012.

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  1. CwrwAmByth

    CwrwAmByth Grand Pooh-Bah (3,113) Jan 24, 2011 England
    Pooh-Bah

    That's a real shame. Though I have to say common courtesy is starting to die out here in some places as well.
     
  2. EmperorBevis

    EmperorBevis Grand High Pooh-Bah (9,338) Sep 25, 2011 England
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Being on both sides of the bar, I do tend to tip a little say 10, 20, 30p each time, usually via keep the change, this I like myself to receive because then at the end of the shift I can have say a pint and a bag of crisps before leaving. I off course never expect any gratuity and not having a big rack this is often the case.

    The real crime, rather than the pay for bar staff or tips is the big pub company rules for bar staff.
    You can't socialise at work, you can't go to the pub where you work when you are off duty, you cannot take a tip over 50p, you cannot serve your friends.

    It is these draconian anti social work place rules that are turning our ale houses into joy free tosser magnets.
     
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  3. jazzyjeff13

    jazzyjeff13 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,865) Nov 6, 2010 England
    Pooh-Bah

    If you drank more pints your rack would get bigger :wink:
     
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  4. EmperorBevis

    EmperorBevis Grand High Pooh-Bah (9,338) Sep 25, 2011 England
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    That could be true because it used to seem the more pints I drank the bigger everybody else's racks got
     
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  5. Zimbo

    Zimbo Pooh-Bah (2,305) Aug 7, 2010 Scotland
    Pooh-Bah

    Although tipping likely began in England its really become an American phenomenon. And hundreds of years ago things were so tight in the UK that tipping just wasn't an option. Today's tipping comes from affluence of the modern consumer society. Recession or no recession, Americans just seem to have more disposable income. You lucky gits.
     
  6. Hanzo

    Hanzo Initiate (0) Feb 27, 2012 Virginia

    Americans may seem like they have the most disposable income, but we also likely carry the most debt.
     
  7. marquis

    marquis Pooh-Bah (2,313) Nov 20, 2005 England
    Pooh-Bah

    A lot of peoples' income is swallowed up by paying for the inflated housing market.Rent and mortgage payments are very heavy calls .
     
  8. CwrwAmByth

    CwrwAmByth Grand Pooh-Bah (3,113) Jan 24, 2011 England
    Pooh-Bah

    We have to pay bills too.
     
  9. Bitterbill

    Bitterbill Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,036) Sep 14, 2002 Wyoming
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    Like Ruds says...different cultures.

    When I lived in Australia, I didn't tip and no one else did either, I may have that backwards. :wink:

    I always got great service because, well, I'm a likeable bloke. :rolling_eyes:
     
  10. Darwin553

    Darwin553 Initiate (0) Jan 5, 2009 Australia

    Well there is a few things to address here:

    Firstly, let me say that I came to your country never being a great tipper. Indeed, I rarely did. Only in instances of extreme drunkenness that I did. But it wasn't a case of being too responsible or too stone cold sober to tip usually, it was more of a realisation that bar workers get paid quite handsomely in Australia. In fact, usually $20 and more on weekends and I had a pretty good idea over the years from tipping threads on BA that UK people don't tip much if at all.

    So I came to London in search of a pub job as what most Aussies seek. And found myself working at a pub after 3 weeks of looking for work in Westminster, won't go any more specific than that. It was part-time, offered as such...14-20 hours a week but on the jov it proved to be around 30 hours, each shift whether you worked 7 or 4 hours was around £15 which deducts board and food as it was live-in. So at the end of the week my take home pay was around £70-80. So I worked it out at less than £3 an hour...

    Tips for the week which was around £100 maybe more or less was all collected in a single jar and I never saw a cent from it until my last week there being 3 months in. I was the junior out of the lot so I suspect the manager and others got their share and I got the rest. I mean of course leading up to that I dilligently put all the tips in the jar without pocketing any of it even when I was alone on the bar...in hindsight I probably should have pocketed it. But I'm just too honest I guess...

    Anyway, I would always lend preference to serving patrons who had tipped before (even if not on the night) or had bought us a drink (and that did happen often although we would just put the value of the drink in the tip jar) than someone who hadn't even if the bar was full and others deserved to be served first...its just goes to the simple point that I and others are struggling to make ends meat that it just made more financial sense to do it. By and large the English were stingy, the Americans were great aleays liked serving them but no surprise in that...but Brits just don't tip as its ingrained in their culture not to despite their being compelling reasons now with the class gap that is definately appearing to begin now...
     
  11. marquis

    marquis Pooh-Bah (2,313) Nov 20, 2005 England
    Pooh-Bah

    If you were working these hours for this pay the employer was liable to prosecution and severe penalties. The minimum wage is exactly that-the least that an employer can legally provide.Neither are employers allowed by law to make any deductions other than tax and NI contributions."Stopping" wages is an offence under the Theft Act 1960.
    In fact it is common for bar staff to earn more than the minimum wage on the basis of unsociable hours.
     
  12. gdodd12

    gdodd12 Initiate (0) Oct 1, 2009 Georgia

    That's because our tax rates are significantly lower. Look at the bright side; when our country collapses from crushing debt, none of us will have any disposable income, and YOU will be the lucky ones.
     
  13. CwrwAmByth

    CwrwAmByth Grand Pooh-Bah (3,113) Jan 24, 2011 England
    Pooh-Bah

    I thought minimum wage was for full time work marquis, whereas part time work was usually lower? Or is there a certain amount of hours per day that means part time becomes full time no matter what the employer says?

    But like he says you are certainly one of an unfortunate minority.

    It's also worth pointing out that because prices in London are so high, it makes people even less likely to pay a tip. I assure you though it isn't stinginess. If barmen actually did something that deserved extra money (i.e. more than their wages) I would tip too, but at the end of the day you're pouring a drink into a glass and handing it to me, as mean as that sounds.
     
  14. marquis

    marquis Pooh-Bah (2,313) Nov 20, 2005 England
    Pooh-Bah

    It was originally introduced for more than a 20 hour working week but it now covers all employment.
    http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/TheNationalMinimumWage/DG_100272

    Many people in the pub industry such as managers and tenants are self employed and the minimum wage doesn't apply. Many of them are effectively working for less than this.
     
  15. CwrwAmByth

    CwrwAmByth Grand Pooh-Bah (3,113) Jan 24, 2011 England
    Pooh-Bah

    So it depends when he was working really.
     
  16. Zimbo

    Zimbo Pooh-Bah (2,305) Aug 7, 2010 Scotland
    Pooh-Bah

    Very true. I'd say our overall household bills have increased about 50% in the last 5-7 years as well. Has pretty much wiped out my wine allowance too. Beer's still forging ahead though.
     
  17. marquis

    marquis Pooh-Bah (2,313) Nov 20, 2005 England
    Pooh-Bah

    I meant really that UK house prices (and therefore rents) are astronomical in the UK. In the US and Australia for example you can buy a mansion for the price of a dog kennel in London.
     
  18. CwrwAmByth

    CwrwAmByth Grand Pooh-Bah (3,113) Jan 24, 2011 England
    Pooh-Bah

    What Zimbo says is true though, especially with gas, car fuel and electricity, as well as food prices. :slight_frown:
     
  19. Zimbo

    Zimbo Pooh-Bah (2,305) Aug 7, 2010 Scotland
    Pooh-Bah

    Yep, rip off Britain continues but from reports I've heard the States and Canada are beginning to move that way too.
     
  20. Darwin553

    Darwin553 Initiate (0) Jan 5, 2009 Australia

    Well you make a good point. One of the reasons I suppose that our pub and perhaps I failed to attract tips, putting aside any potential bad service standards as a cause, was the high prices that we charged. And probably goes to the point that it was mostly the foreigners that tipped whilst the locals, who had a greater appreciation of our prices compared to other pubs, didn't tip in as much.

    Well the job is fairly simple and routine, I agree. I mean going back to the Australian context in which I come, that I used to criticise hospitality workers on that side of the liquor industry ledger as I felt that, as we were paid the same base rate, that I used to do far more work in liquor retail than I thought my fellow liquor workers behind the bar did and they got and sometimes expected to get tips to boot.

    But after experiencing what I did in London behind the bar with the wages being so far behind what the Australian standard of pay is and a greater appreciation of the level of work they do (well at least in the UK context; as Australian pubs have a different culture and patronage) that in all honesty I thought I was wasting my time working for such a pittance. And eventually I did decide to cut my stay over in London short because of this even though I planned to stay for longer and have got the right to stay for as long as I like with my dual passport status.

    I guess the lesson in all of this, when I do go back, is to do 'professional' work. And I expect to be in a position to be able to do this as well. Because whilst the ale is damn good drinking and the English are, on the whole, generally nice and good people to get along with (they sure enjoy the banter), that they are rather oblivious to anything that may be happening behind the bar which shows in their lack of tipping.
     
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