Tired Hands (2021)

Ok fair enough. So, going to a listening session with a couple that owns 80 percent of the company with only a bunch of fractional owners otherwise. (I know you're just highlighting, and I shouldn't have oversimplified, but either way this idea is supremely bad). If anything it highlights how difficult it is to separate bad behavior from someone like Jean and THs problems.

 

As I had said earlier in the SEPA thread, I think people are inclined to be believe the accusations because it's because it's not a big stretch to believe Jean Broilett is a jerk in private when most of his public communications came off as arrogant. Not as big a leap.

 

Yeah, don't mistake me for a defender, I've made it pretty clear over the years on these forums that I always thought TH's overall schtick has been pretentious, and some of their beers overrated.

I never went out of my way to go there, most visits were when I had tickets to a show at the Ardmore Music Hall. So not hard to eliminate my patronage.

 

Literally the only thing he apologizes for is taking so long to get out a reply.

It will be interesting to see what stepping aside from leadership for “a bit” means. Not sure there’s any way to inject long-term accountability into that workplace from the top-down. The workers should consider unionizing.

 

Not on IG but were any accusations made against Forest and Main or Yards Brewing?

 

same, and I usually went to the cafe', not the fermawhatsis.

 

I don't think there was anything relative to F&M from my recollection, but I thought there may have been one or two mentions of Yards. Someone please correct me if you saw/remember otherwise.

 

I read through about 80% of the stories, and not that I saw.

F&M made a post yesterday linking to Brienne Allan's original posts:

Neshaminy Creek was mentioned, as @thebeers posted in the SEPA thread.

 

Forest & Main no (unsurprisingly).

Yards not that I'm aware of in this accusation heap, but there was this article that just ran recently: https://www.phillymag.com/news/2021/05/06/yards-brewing-pregnancy-discrimination-lawsuit/.

 

True, but I mean that has translated, along obviously with the beer quality at HF, to a cult like following. Honestly lawsuit aside its not as if Jean and Shaun haven't interacted personally plenty, and I just wonder how much of that reflects back on Shaun and how seriously to take the accusations against him, especially when he was happy to get into business with Jean when all indications seem to be he was clearly, on a personal level, every bit as insufferable as the (I thought exaggerated to some degree) posts etc.
I should also say, that if they both want to own companies and be creative geniuses, then yes, they do open themselves up to criticism publicly beyond that of most people. No one is entitled to running a highly successful or admired brewery, whatever brewing talent or raw business skills you may have. So whether or not their behavior lies in a legal Grey zone, it seems to me the volume of complaints are troubling. In just glad to see cooler heads prevail in regards to TH vs HF in discussions here.

 

Thanks everyone. Pretty bummed out to learn about all this shit. Have zero tolerance for stuff like this. So where does one go from here? Obviously, tired hands is going to take the approach that time heals everything. Do you hit the brewery where it hurts and just stop doing business with that brewery altogether? What about the good people that still work at that particular brewery? They get screwed by these actions for results by these higher scumbags or assholes.

 

I can understand a wide spectrum of reactions to the Tired Hands ordeal (outside of "these accusations are probably false" or "wow these women have an ax to grind" etc). I had been holding off on a reaction to see how they addressed it, but I thought it was (very, very) lacking.

I completely understand those who swear they'll never support Tired Hands again. I don't think I'm quite there, in large part because I'd love to see their management move forward positively from this and I'd love to support them in doing so... eventually.

In the meantime, I feel a little duped. Jean's antics aside, I feel like customers were led to believe that he sincerely feels strongly about social justice and workers rights; it seems like he may have had trouble putting those ideas into practice personally.

I'd echo @thebeers in that unionization would be a huge, positive leap forward... but I don't expect that to happen anytime soon, realistically. I'm not even sure what sort of change I'd like to see, on a tangible level... but whatever that address was yesterday (we can't even call it an apology) wasn't it. Holding off on supporting them for the time being, but very much hope that this local business is somewhere I can proudly support in the future.

If anyone else has structural, concrete changes they'd like to see, I'd be interested to hear them.

 

Has anyone seen anywhere if Jean has been accused of any of the sexual stuff like Shaun Hill?

 

Per @ratmagnet's story, from anonymous contributor:

5/17: "THBC employees shut down production today. Didn't want the past actions of ownership to reflect current employees. [...] This also included local deliveries and FOH can sales.

5/18: "Production, deliveries and FOH can sales halted again today [...]. Current employees not happy with ownership's response and lack of accountability and culpability."

As disheartened as I was with management's response, this is incredibly heartening.

 

I'll spend more money at other brewers so someone still benefits. For me it's zero sum. I have a beer budget, a liver that I don't want to go cirrhosis, and only so much fridge space. Tired Hands loss is Tonewoods/D96s/other halfs/Kanes gain. Maybe that's not great for TH employees but neither is linking Jean's pockets if this is how he treats employees.

 

Agreed on unions, though I will say that employee owned Modern times had its share of stories. Historically unions have a mixed track record in helping POCs and women, because, well, the white males members were as bad as management. So it wouldn't be a cure all.

 

Agreed, this is great news. I'd love to see employee-led structural change, even ownership. There's a lot of reasons this whole thing sucks, including the fact that I love TH beers (not the milkshake stuff), and I've spent hundreds of dollars on having them UPS'd to me during the pandemic. They've been one of the serious cushions for me making the transition moving from CA to PA, have loved both the Brew Cafe and the Ferm. Like you, I'm not quite at the point of swearing them off entirely, but I'm hitting the pause button for now until we see what shakes out.

 

I was taking screen shots of the TH posts and stopped after twenty or so. I don’t recall any accusing Jean of sexual harassment or sexual assault. (There may have been some about other employees, but I honestly don’t remember clearly among so many different posts.)

The majority of complaints seemed to be about sexism and racism in hiring, treatment, training, promotion and dismissal, which in my mind goes beyond just being a bad boss who treats people disrespectfully.

 

Nothing physical that I read. But discrimination towards female (and minority) employees, and dismissiveness of womens' knowledge/skills.

There was also this anecdote, which seems to really highlight his ego and that he really believes his own bullshit:
"Heard Jean telling someone that women coming into the Ferm that said hello to him made him uncomfortable because he knew they just wanted to sleep with him because of his success"

 

Also, looking back on the few times I watched Jean's Mushroom Club, the one word that kept coming to mind was "man-child." He's brewed some of my favorite beers of all time, but this guy is barely an adult. It might do him best to hand over all operations to someone else and go back to tinkering with beer.