To dry-hop, or not?

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by ricchezza, Feb 15, 2019.

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  1. ricchezza

    ricchezza Zealot (670) Nov 2, 2005 Massachusetts

    Hello. I’m looking for some opinions on whether, or not, to add dry hops to an beer with seemingly already high assumed IBU. I’m leaning towards just leaving it alone.

    6 ounces between whirlpool and hopback would you even bother with dry-hopping (aka: when are hops too much?)?
    I have not already tasted this as I do not want to introduce oxygen. Dry-hopping would be done with hops in a purged keg and closed transfer.

    1.080 OG. (2 lbs. table sugar, the rest just 2-row).

    41 IBU from 60 minute addition (1 oz. Columbus 14.5 AA).
    52 IBU from 3 ounces at flameout and 30 minute whirlpool (assuming 10% utilization) (Citra 14 AA).
    57 IBU from 3 ounces from hopback (assuming 10% utilization) (2 oz. Citra 13.3 AA, 1 Mosaic 11.5 AA).

    For what it’s worth, I used White Labs San Diego Super Yeast in a chest freezer at 60 degrees Fahrenheit (ambient). Temp. raised to 68 degrees after vigorous fermentation slowed, 4 days, for a D-rest (may be an unnecessary step on ales, but I like the idea that it improves the beer). After 3 days the beer is again at 60 degrees. This puts me past the point of adding the hops as fermentation slows, which seems to have become a very popular trend in IPAs.

    In conclusion, the question again is, how much hop is too much hop? I know that thread already exists on here (which I have read), I’m just curious about the opinions relating to the recipe above.
     
  2. GormBrewhouse

    GormBrewhouse Pooh-Bah (2,111) Jun 24, 2015 Vermont
    Pooh-Bah

    Too much hops is when you dislike the hop level in your beer. That being said,,,, if you want more aromatics, dry hop with an oz of something you like then bottle or keg and see what you think.
     
  3. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    The "high assumed IBU" pertains to the aspect of bitterness.

    Whether to dry hop or not depends on whether you want this beer to have a lot of hop aroma. If you are looking for 'more' hop aroma I would recommend that you dry hop this batch. Otherwise, don't.

    Cheers!
     
  4. ricchezza

    ricchezza Zealot (670) Nov 2, 2005 Massachusetts

    I understand what you are trying to say.

    I understand that Citra is prone to being over done. I have personally yet to experience hop burn and I do not know where the threshold lies.
    Obviously I can add whatever I want, or don’t add anything, and see what I think later (upon reading back that comes across as negative, which was not my intent; but the point stands).
    I was thinking instead of over doing Citra to use 1-2 ounces Centennial or half/half Citra/Centennial at 1.5-2 ounces.

    To back up the original post: Perhaps someone has already been in this situation and can save someone else from ruining 5 gallons.

    I think we can all agree that Sean Lawson (Lawson’s Finest Liquids, Vermont) knows more than we do. The beer above that I brewed was a simplified beer loosley based on the published recipe he released of “Double Sunshine” which is as follows:

    9.5 lbs. two-row
    2.5 lbs. Vienna
    1 lb flaked oats
    12 oz. Carapils
    6 oz. caraMunich-type
    1 lb sugar
    (OG: 1.074)

    .75 oz Columbus (60 min.)
    1 oz. Citra (20 min.)
    3 oz. Citra (5 min.)
    3 oz. Citra (knockout)
    3 oz. Citra (dry hop)
     
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  5. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Sure, that would result in a nice hop aroma.

    There really is no way for us to 'properly' advise you here since beer appreciation is a subjective thing.

    In my opinion dry hopping this beer via:
    • 1-2 ounces Centennial
    • half/half Citra/Centennial at 1.5-2 ounces
    • 3 ounces Citra
    All of the above would result in a tasty beer for my palate. Pick what 'looks' good to you.

    Cheers!
     
  6. wasatchback

    wasatchback Pooh-Bah (1,574) Jan 12, 2014 Tajikistan
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    You need that many IBUs to balance out a beer with that high an ABV. In fact I think you probably need more. Ever had Abner from Hill Farmstead? It’s 170 theoretical IBUs and is still nice and soft.

    Dry hopping also has the ability to reduce IBUs believe it or not.

    If you want a double IPA with out lot a lot of aromatics don’t dry hop it. If you want one with lots of aromatics I’d add 6-8oz of hops personally.

    Sean Lawson doesn’t dry hop during fermentation so if you want to make something similar to double sunshine I wouldn’t either.

    I just don’t think 3oz is enough for that beer. 6-8 or more be more ideal. All sorts of studies say more than 2lb/bbl is worthless but at least in my beers I notice a difference.
     
  7. GetMeAnIPA

    GetMeAnIPA Pooh-Bah (2,559) Mar 28, 2009 California
    Pooh-Bah

    When in doubt dry hop. If you’re really concerned pull a sample post fermentation and see how bitter it is. While, the sample will be warm and flat, which will most likely increase the perceived bitterness it will give you an idea.

    Next time skip the 60 min addition or just use a really small amount. Based on the SG I would say this beer can use a good 2-3 dry hop addition.
     
  8. ricchezza

    ricchezza Zealot (670) Nov 2, 2005 Massachusetts

    "Ever had Abner from Hill Farmstead? It’s 170 theoretical IBUs and is still nice and soft." - wasatchback

    I have not. Funny enough, I have a version of Abner carbonating in a keg right now. Same October 2013 issue of BYO that the above Lawson’s recipe came from.
    That beer does call for 5 ounces of dry hop, which I did without question because I didn’t follow the recipe exact and resulted in a calculated 74 IBU (the magazine does predict 100+).

    Thanks guys, I appreciate the input which appears to be backing up my instinct to go for about 2 oz. dry hop. I think I was feeling lazy first thing this morning and looking for a reason to justify skipping a step!
     
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  9. wasatchback

    wasatchback Pooh-Bah (1,574) Jan 12, 2014 Tajikistan
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    If you want it nice an aromatic I’d suggest something closer to 5 oz at least.
     
  10. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Grand Pooh-Bah (3,348) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Yes. Dryhop it. Now.

    Edit, there is no such thing as over doing citra.
     
  11. thebriansmaude

    thebriansmaude Crusader (472) Dec 16, 2016 Canada (AB)
    Trader

    +1 to bigger dry hop !
     
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  12. Arturo2

    Arturo2 Initiate (0) Jan 6, 2019 Oregon

    As Jack says, it's all subjective.
    But I'm gonna play devil's advocate here.
    With nothing but two row and table sugar, plus 090 ... your hops should be more than sufficient with most of them going into the whirlpool and hop stand.
    Can you over-do hops? Absolutely. For my palate anyway.
    I just did a pineapple IPA and bittered it with Nugget. Went with 2 oz each of Citra and Mosaic at flame out, in addition to 2 oz each in a 170° hopstand for 20 mins. Yep, overdid it. Left no room for the pineapple to even peek through. Grain bill was 50/50 2 row and GP with a drop of Crystal for color. WLP007 which is my go to yeast. More than hoppy enough in both aroma and taste ... for me. I'm not a real hophead though, so take that into consideration.

    Not to mention you've got the closed transfer going on which will really hold the aroma.
     
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  13. NorCalKid

    NorCalKid Initiate (0) Jan 10, 2018 California

    Experimental Brewing Podcast
    Episode 86: Resolving the Secret of the Hop

    Denny and Drew bring up a very good discussion and some studies on dry hopping. Give it a listen.
     
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  14. i_still_like_beer

    i_still_like_beer Initiate (0) Nov 21, 2018 New Jersey

    may be an unpopular opinion but I believe if there is any hop that you can over dry hop (within reason) it is Citra. I love juicy neipa's and my hop schedules are always late and dry. For 5 gallon batches I usually dry hop with 6-7oz but 7oz of Citra is way different than 7oz of el dorado or mosaic. Citra is a powerful hop but I think the schedule you have up there would be good but on the hot side may be more bitter to my preference, I wouldn't do more than the 0.75oz of Columbus in the boil. Columbus is also a good hop for dry hopping w/ Citra
     
  15. wasatchback

    wasatchback Pooh-Bah (1,574) Jan 12, 2014 Tajikistan
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    What did “too much” taste/smell/feel like in your opinion?
     
  16. i_still_like_beer

    i_still_like_beer Initiate (0) Nov 21, 2018 New Jersey

    well I can't say I've ever ruined a beer by over dry hopping, but I do remember doing a batch with 7oz of Citra (among 1-2oz of other lighter floral hops like Cascade) and I think it was the closest I've really ever been to tasting that hop-burn people talk about but I'm not sure. However, I didn't bag the pellets like I do now. So maybe I was tasting the suspended hop particles more intensely.
     
  17. wasatchback

    wasatchback Pooh-Bah (1,574) Jan 12, 2014 Tajikistan
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    yeah you were. happens all the time with all the potent hops. you just need to do things to get those polyphenols out of suspension. More time, lower temps, etc.
     
  18. wasatchback

    wasatchback Pooh-Bah (1,574) Jan 12, 2014 Tajikistan
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    i love not being able to go back and edit posts in these forums...
     
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  19. NorCalKid

    NorCalKid Initiate (0) Jan 10, 2018 California

    Recently dry hopped a NEIPA with 4 ozs of El Dorado hop hash w/ 2 ozs of Citra in a 5 gallon batch. Aroma was good, but an intense yellow/white grapefruit with that slight tannic hop bite in flavor. With your process and amount of dry hops, IMO is key to finding that “balance”.

    I’ve been backing off the amount of dry hops in my IPAs. Finding I like it more. Not so much of that bite. I also cold crash. But YMMV.
     
  20. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    How old is that beer right now?

    Cheers!
     
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