Topping Goliath (2023)

Considering these are both private companies, unless you’re seeing sales data directly from them, I’d take any numbers you find on the internet with a grain of salt. I would however assume TH has better profit margins (aside from TG’s crazy stout package prices) since they only self distribute.

 

This exactly.

If I had to guess, TH makes better margins and has higher profit with TG possibly doing higher sales volume due to distro. I have some anecdotal numbers from a friend from a few years back. I believe he said in 2021 that 87ish% of total sales from TG are from distro, with a major part of the 13% left being stout releases. With those number alone, I think we can safely TH is tanking TG in profit and has been for sometime. I mean only one of them had to sell out and make a mass produced made to order shit version of there most well known beer in order to expand.

 

All fair points but cut them a little slack, selling anything in Decorah, Iowa has to be the pits.

Not unlike Other Half just going gangbusters for a decade despite aping everyone else's game and not even being as good at it. Give a huge populace like NYC what they're frothing at the mouth over and you'll go nuclear in no time flat.

 

I would agree they defiantly are at somewhat of a disadvantage due to location, but I've heard Clark brag multiple times about being within 3-4ish hours of all the major cities of the midwest, Madison, Milwaukee, Minneapolis, Des Monies, Chicago. Not to mention alot of close minor cities within an hour, La Crosse where I was being one of them. They had money flowing in hand and fist, and its not like Clark was worried about this being his only option, his family owns IRP. But then they just fumbled. I think Mike leaving for a while was the start of the downturn, or maybe is was just the increase in their distro.

I also think about a brewery like Hill Farmstead, who has also kept there beer of a higher quality and expanded. It just shows you that a Clark is a business man first and not a brewer who's main interest is the quality of their beer and not just revenue .

 

What's IRP?

 

I think this.

Hill is certainly a comparison, but I don't think good one volume or revenue-wise. They probably distribute more kegs to VT and NY pubs than packaged product people take away each month, even despite the fact that many people consider it the best brewery in the world. Even on their busiest, non-whale release days they probably have like 100 to-go sales, whereas Tree House probably does 100 to-go sales every thirty minutes.

Obviously all of that is just conjecture, but having been to all three several times, and knowing TG does distribute widely, Hill's just nowhere near the same league on that front. You still can't even buy Hill cans in bottle shops. If they produced any kind of volume, that ship would have sailed long ago, like Alchemist or Lawson's. People drive hours to Hill for beautiful saisons, usually aiming to get their hands on some of the oak aged stuff. No one's driving 3 hours for hops anymore. At least no sane person.

 

Well said, Hill is the one I am unfamiliar with the most out of the 3 and there beer has still stayed out my reach somehow, but I am surprised to hear that they aren't pushing more volume.Russian River may of been a better example. But I think that comes back to my original point of TG just getting to large to keep the same quality. I think they would still have some of the same buzz they use to if they stayed smaller and kept distro tight and fresh. Buzz I still hear when people talk about TH, Hill, or Russian River for that matter.

Also sad to say I still have to drive 2.5 hours to get my good hops when I'm craving them.

 

Hill Farmstead being smaller is intentional. Shaun Hill did an expansion in 2014 to a max annual production of around 150,000 gallons (a little over 4,800 barrels). He set that as his max limit, they will never brew more than that. Both TG and TH I’ve seen reliable numbers over 40,000 barrels in annual production, so they’re roughly 10x the size of Hill.

 

Making my first trip to TG next weekend—the weekend after the Coconut/Pecan/Vanilla Assassin and '23 Morning Delight release. What are the odds that either will still be available on draft a week after release? I have no idea what the norm is here.

 

probably a good shot at MD i’d think

 

Anyone try the Coconut/Pecan/Vanilla Assassin yet? It's getting huge rating on UT... 4.82

 

I’ve enjoyed regular Assassin a ton more than the vanilla and coconut variants I’ve had in the past so I skipped this one and now am kicking myself after seeing the crazy positive reception towards it.

 

They were pouring it at Great Taste this weekend. Clear standout for me for best beer at the fest (though I missed some of the other heavy hitters). The nut flavors were both prominent but not overbearing and played well together. Smooth, rich, but not excessive. Really really enjoyed it

 

Looks like Toppling Goliath has announced the location of their second tap room in Des Moines:
https://www.businessrecord.com/toppling-goliath-opening-tap-room-in-drake-neighborhood/

TL;DR: It's going in to the Drake Neighborhood, the northern half of the block where The Varsity theater is (boxed in by 24th & 25 Streets and University and Carpenter Avenues), target date of first half of 2025 for opening.

 

Great news. 2 stops for Desantis next time!

 

2 stops. One cup?

 

Mix Sue 12 packs drop in October. F..king Finally!

 

SR-71 on 9/16?

 

https://imgur.com/a/MnRl8Fg