Toppling Goliath collaboration with Binny's beverage depot

Discussion in 'Beer News & Releases' started by FourFingers414, Aug 11, 2019.

  1. Beer_Economicus

    Beer_Economicus Devotee (479) Apr 8, 2017 Indiana
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  2. Lorddevn

    Lorddevn Initiate (20) Mar 10, 2019 Wisconsin
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    You forgot the kick ass name. Barrel slayer with 2 snakes
     
  3. Vitacca

    Vitacca Crusader (714) Sep 15, 2010 Wisconsin
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    And what’s the msrp, $40?
     
  4. bbtkd

    bbtkd Poo-Bah (2,555) Sep 20, 2015 South Dakota
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    Not KBBS? :disappointed
     
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  5. nc41

    nc41 Poo-Bah (1,865) Sep 25, 2008 North Carolina
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    So what part in this collab did Binny’s play? Do they pay for the right to be an exclusive retailer? Old Hickory’s Lindley Park was a Bestway collab, but it was available most everywhere here, so what was in it I don’t have a clue. Roger was friends with the Old Hickory crew so perhaps this is different or maybe not.
     
  6. Beer_Economicus

    Beer_Economicus Devotee (479) Apr 8, 2017 Indiana
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    I’d assume they are providing the barrels - probably from “handpicked” barrels of a particular whiskey that ended up being bottled as a “whiskey_name Storepick”.
     
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  7. Lorddevn

    Lorddevn Initiate (20) Mar 10, 2019 Wisconsin
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    Binnys supplies the barrels. If you read the label posted it appears like no adjuncts. States that it’s a chocolate fudge brownie taste with barrel too it
     
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  8. Prince_Casual

    Prince_Casual Disciple (324) Nov 3, 2012 District of Columbia
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    What are you basing that assumption on?

    Because that sounds like bs to me. They've saved up all the "Binny's picks" barrels for years and then sent them to TG? You do know they need to be refilled asap to stay usable right?

    Binny's doesn't do nearly enough store picks to make that possible / reasonable.


    EDIT: unless it's like 3 bourbon barrels and this is super limited. MAYBE if this is a tiny release that is possible.

    EDIT2: and this being Toppling Hypeliath, maybe that is what they are trying to do. Giving lots of people a chance to try and objectively rate their beers, is millions of miles away from their apparent "game plan" Apologies I sounded like a d!ck.
     
  9. Lorddevn

    Lorddevn Initiate (20) Mar 10, 2019 Wisconsin
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    https://tenemu.com/news/toppling-go...n-barrel-slayer-barrel-aged-stout/08/2019/amp

    Binnys supplied the barrels. Calm down about TG they produce solid ass stouts. I’ll be interested in where they release it, but if I miss out could care less focused on the KBBS and bottle logic release (my speculation)
     
  10. FBarber

    FBarber Poo-Bah (2,825) Mar 5, 2016 Illinois
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    You ever been to a Binnys or know what it is?

    They most certainly do do enough store picks to use the barrels for BA stout release and they have done several of them in the past including with specific barrels, and general barrel aged stouts.
     
  11. Beer_Economicus

    Beer_Economicus Devotee (479) Apr 8, 2017 Indiana
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    I read this all the way through, and it was quite amusing to see the edits. No worries :slight_smile:.

    BTW, if you are not aware, this is how The Wine and Cheese Place gets their SP allocation of BA beers. I mean, it exclusively, but they get a portion of any BA beer made by SP that went into a barrel they received from TWCP.
     
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  12. Prince_Casual

    Prince_Casual Disciple (324) Nov 3, 2012 District of Columbia
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    I sure do. How many 'store barrels' of Bourbon do you think they sell per year? Hundreds? I don't think so. I just looked it up and while they have more locations than I thought they did, they still aren't selling through barrels that quickly nor are they even offered that many from the major distilleries.

    Like I said, if they are filling and emptying let's say 12 bourbon barrels, that's not very much. Do we need a thread in Beer News & Releases every times someone fills ? And I quote: "Not for region specific items"


    Haha had a couple beers. Do we need a thread in Beer News & Releases for every SP beer? That 's a collaboration with TWCP and brewery only (or that store only)? I don't think so.


    My point was that this is Regional Specific Item, and there's no chance they have enough bourbon barrels, that have been sold by Binny's, to make it a release worthy pf BN&R. If that was worded poorly, apologies.
     
  13. SeanBond

    SeanBond Meyvn (1,029) Jul 30, 2013 Illinois
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    Hey man, don't be salty you can't have this, you guys get good beers over there, too. :stuck_out_tongue:
     
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  14. drtth

    drtth Poo-Bah (3,942) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania

    Your logic is quite reasonable above but neglects a few possibilities. For example, we do not have direct access to the number of fresh used barrels they themselves empty. Second we do not have access to knowing that they did not make a special purchase of fresh barrels especially for this type of event. Sometimes folks do plan well in advance for things such as this.

    BTW, In the event you consider a thread inappropriate you might find it more effective and less stressful results in the long run if you simply report the thread and lets the mods take care of it. I can assure that there are reasons to believe they do it and fairly quickly. Then you can relax, move on, and not have any concern or stress.

    Cheers!
     
    #15 drtth, Aug 12, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019
  15. FBarber

    FBarber Poo-Bah (2,825) Mar 5, 2016 Illinois
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    You checked out their website? Yea, a lot of their store picks never see the website let alone the shelves. Considering I'm in one or two of their stores at least once a week I can tell you they have a lot more store picks than are ever posted on their website. Not only do they have store picks of specific barrels, but they've started doing their own blends - for example Buffalo Trace - where they pick a bunch of barrels and blend them for a more cost efficient "store pick" thats still different than the generic bottle. (Don't care to get into the bourbon side of that mess).
    @drtth beat me to it, but if you think this shouldn't be in the general release thread (which I agree it shouldn't be and was kind of surprised to see it here and not in the GL forum) then report it and ask a mod to move it.

    On the flip side, the basis I can see for leaving it here is that I am sure for the people into that sort of thing, this will be a very tradeable beer for people outside of Binnys footprint.
     
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  16. drtth

    drtth Poo-Bah (3,942) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania

    This is very interesting to learn that the retail business they operate is so wide spread and doing so well. (We don't have them around here.) I don't really see how they could or would afford to do that themselves without a high volume of sales. (Lots of facilities, inventorying, skilled job hires, etc.) If they couldn't afford it and make a profit they'd source it from someone else. (Makes me wish I'd bought some of their stock back in the day--assuming they have shares on the market.)
     
  17. HouseofWortship

    HouseofWortship Defender (635) May 3, 2016 Illinois
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    I'm looking for clarification. Binny's never actually takes possession of any barrels, after tasting they just select the ones they like at the distiller's barrel house and then the contents eventually wind up in a bottle with some sort of "selected by Binnys" verbiage on it. Right? BInny's isn't emptying barrels into bottles in the back of their store....
     
  18. FBarber

    FBarber Poo-Bah (2,825) Mar 5, 2016 Illinois
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    Yea, they are a behemoth here in IL. they have 40 stores spanning most of the state except the far southern portion (south of Springfield) and the far northwest corner (Rockford down to Quad Cities area). And they're opening a couple new ones this year.
     
  19. FBarber

    FBarber Poo-Bah (2,825) Mar 5, 2016 Illinois
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    Correct. But the empty barrels are Binny's property and they can do what they want with them assuming they pick them up from the distillery. A Buddy of mine bought a Four Roses barrel and he went and picked up the barrel and a bunch of cases of bottled bourbon.
     
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  20. drtth

    drtth Poo-Bah (3,942) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania

    So that should mean I was a bit wrong just above I think. If they never take possesion but have all that variety, etc. there's got to be a middle man who does the blending etc. at their request, etc. That would also imply that the middle man probably has other customers who want the same service, etc. That's much more effecient for all parties involved than my more expensive proposed model.
     
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  21. riegler

    riegler Initiate (88) Apr 30, 2015 Iowa

    Love Binny's! Too bad NW Illinois is the one area that would benefit me the most:confused: (I'm in Dubuque, IA right across the river) I always make a stop at Binny's whenever I'm in/near Chicago. The one on Jefferson Street downtown had the best beer selection I've ever seen. It was unreal.
     
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  22. FBarber

    FBarber Poo-Bah (2,825) Mar 5, 2016 Illinois
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    Yea, you're in the no-mans land. I'm still surprised they don't have one in Rockford or the Quad Cities. Must be something behind the scenes we don't know about.
     
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  23. Prince_Casual

    Prince_Casual Disciple (324) Nov 3, 2012 District of Columbia
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    So Binny's talks to the Knob Creek guys, maybe tries a couple barrel samples, and then picks one (or several), and it gets bottled as "Single Barrel Reserve - picked by Binny's" and then the wholesaler sells that barrel only to Binny's
    https://www.binny.com/blog/post/2018-knob-creek-handpicked-single-barrels

    The do this with Buffalo Trace, Four Roses, Maker's etc etc. FWGS in PA does this too, I know they do it with Four Roses Barrel for sure because I bought some last time I was in PA.

    Sometimes when they ship the cases to the wholesaler -> store / bar, they shrinkwrap the physical barrel on top of the pallets. Or they can just FedEx it or hand deliver to wherever they want the physical barrel, in this case TG.

    These bourbons are 'single barrel' so there's no blending, ideally there isn't even water added, it's just dumped out of the barrel, some sediment removed, and no water added. I'm not catching your "proposal" but this is how it is done when people buy single barrels/ store picks of bourbon.
     
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  24. drtth

    drtth Poo-Bah (3,942) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania

    Gotcha, no blending needed but Binny's buys/owns enough barrels total to take barrels off the hands of folks who might otherwise have to dispos of them in some other fashion and then let the brewer use on this beer. IIRC can't the empty barrels be kept moist for a while waiting?
     
    #25 drtth, Aug 12, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019
  25. Prince_Casual

    Prince_Casual Disciple (324) Nov 3, 2012 District of Columbia
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    Well bourbon barrels are in high demand [Scotch | Rum | Tequila| Wine | Hot Sauce | Maple Syrup | Beer] all reuse once used bourbon barrels. So it's not like they're thinking about throwing them away, not even close there are barrel brokers who buy and sell just like any other commodity.

    In some situations in fact the Scotch producer is actually the owner of the barrel from the start, but they "lend"/"rent" the barrel to Jack Daniel's, who "seasons" the barrel with their whiskey before shipping it across the Atlantic.

    Barrels do better full, as soon as they are not full, they get messed up (need work to get going again, which is why most Scotch producers have cooperages on site and/or rebuild the barrels into larger hogsheads, out of the pieces of a bourbon barrel). You wouldn't want to fill up a once used bourbon barrel with water "just to keep it moist" if that's what you're thinking.
     
  26. drtth

    drtth Poo-Bah (3,942) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania

    Yeah, I've long known of the demand for used Bourbon barrels though my exploration of the Single Malts that were a passion while making frequent trips though Heathrow and several other International bottle shops while traveling. Those scots typical recondition the barrels and may use them for dozens of years.

    Agreed with the issue of increased demand because of brewers demand, etc. One doesn't just ramp up production of used barrels overnight with that aging time lag.

    Still I can't yet rule out the possibility that lots of barrels are delivered, emptied, bottles filled and then, by prior agreement, barrels passed to Binny and then on to the brewery. Agreed it would be hard to coordinate, but, impossible?
     
  27. nc41

    nc41 Poo-Bah (1,865) Sep 25, 2008 North Carolina
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    Glenmorangie does this with new oak barrels, they’re freely used then the property of Glenmorangie who inputs scotch.
     
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  28. Beer_Economicus

    Beer_Economicus Devotee (479) Apr 8, 2017 Indiana
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    I wish I knew the people to tag for sure. This is really a question (at least when it comes to beer) about the potential for infection. The longer the barrels are empty, the greater the chance. Going to take a chance and tag a few people that might know:

    @FBarber @Sabtos @Squire @Highbrow @Lazhal
     
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  29. Sabtos

    Sabtos Poo-Bah (6,785) Dec 15, 2015 Ohio
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    It's more that the older they are the more damaged and pourous they become, adding to waste and evaporation than anything, and they impart less flavor. They can always steam clean it.
     
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  30. Beer_Economicus

    Beer_Economicus Devotee (479) Apr 8, 2017 Indiana
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    Buuut, doesn't that defeat the purpose of using a bourbon barrel? Isn't it at that point, just a "used barrel" that at one point held bourbon?

    Or am I wrong to think that this process would remove all the bourbon?
     
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  31. nc41

    nc41 Poo-Bah (1,865) Sep 25, 2008 North Carolina
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    This is probably above my pay grade here, but I don’t understanding cleaning a barrel. Sure there’s wet barrels and those that might be a bit dry, but I’d assume scotch distillers are looking for nuance, and 10 years in a barrel lend a kiss and not a hammer. I doubt distillers want a hot barrel of bourbon that would over power their scotch. And opposite that I’d assume brewers would prefer wet barrels, they need more influence from only 6-12 months aging in their beers. I’m sure this process and transition is quite refined and orderly, the slight sweetness you get from a scotch done in a bourbon barrel is priceless, then they can bottle or finish in other barrels
     
  32. Beer_Economicus

    Beer_Economicus Devotee (479) Apr 8, 2017 Indiana
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    In general, yes, brewers want wet barrels. That's what makes BCBS what BCBS is: The fact that the base is dumped into freshly dumped, wet barrels. That's one of (or maybe the primary reason?) why it has that real bourbon kick to it, and others do not. That's not to say the base doesn't play a role in perhaps "absorbing" the flavor, it may, but the process certainly plays a big role.
     
  33. Squire

    Squire Poo-Bah (2,245) Jul 16, 2015 Mississippi
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    Yes and no, depending on barrel condition at the time it arrives at the brewery. Even well used the technology is there to produce a clean barrel that retains some Bourbon traits but we are dealing with a natural product vessel that varies tremendously in individual characteristics. When new the barrels will vary depending on the age of the tree, growth conditions, denser or more porous wood which affect how the char takes, whether the wood was kiln or air dried and if naturally dried for how long. Quick dried (kiln) can retain as much as 24% of the original sap content whereas two year air dried can be as low as .05%. Then of course we have to consider warehouse placement of the barrel and most importantly how long the barrel was used to age Bourbon. I can only imagine all the subtle difficulties brewers face when using such highly inconsistent aging vessels of only 53 gallons each. Basically, using a refill Bourbon barrel to age beer is an exercise in controlled inconsistency.
     
  34. Beer_Economicus

    Beer_Economicus Devotee (479) Apr 8, 2017 Indiana
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    Well said. Thank you for the lesson. Always a wealth of information.
     
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  35. nc41

    nc41 Poo-Bah (1,865) Sep 25, 2008 North Carolina
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    I think the difference here in wants is just simply time. Bourbon aged 12 years deeply impacts the oak barrel. So the needs of a brewery are very different than a distiller. GI needs hot barrels to impact flavor at a greater and faster rate than a scotch distiller who might patiently wait for 10 years to extract the subtle flavors. I might think hot barrels would not be a positive for scotch but I certainly can’t know that. But I’d assume the scotch distiller is maintaining a proud tradition, their whiskey is the thing, and the bourbon influence of just a kiss is what they seek. The first guys to do this probably got death threats from traditional scotch distillers. But I love both scenarios.
     
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  36. FatBoyGotSwagger

    FatBoyGotSwagger Meyvn (1,328) Apr 4, 2009 Pennsylvania

    So when we see Toppling Goliath in PA.. Any week now :rolling_eyes:
     
  37. Beer_Economicus

    Beer_Economicus Devotee (479) Apr 8, 2017 Indiana
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    For sure that may be the ideal for a case like the one you mentioned. I definitely know nothing about a distiller user a bourbon barrel for their own aging. I was certainly only speaking to what I know about what brewers (i.e. beer) want to use.
     
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  38. nc41

    nc41 Poo-Bah (1,865) Sep 25, 2008 North Carolina
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    I’m only aware after enjoying Glenmorangie Aged 10 years in a bourbon barrel then finished two years in high end port barrels. Just a tremendous whiskey. But I’ve had ipas done in hot bourbon barrels thst tasted like a shot and a beer , the beer you couldn’t see thru the glass , and I loved it, so different, just a bourbon hammer. But hot barrels I would think would be essential for breweries. Time says so.
     
  39. JFresh21

    JFresh21 Disciple (318) Mar 6, 2012 Illinois
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    This is a great move by Binnys. Now Chicagoland folk can get a hold of a TG barrel aged stout without driving 5 hours. I imagine the bottle count will be pretty low. They should do the same thing with Pulpit Rock next.
     
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