Trading in the cold

If he said it is OK, all risk is on him, not you. You should also be concerned about the box he is going to send you. Weather in NE looking better next week, a Monday ship next week may be the way to go. Packing the hell out of it wont make a difference once the box gets cold.

 

While the trading risk might not be on OP, the shipping risk is. If a frozen bottle bursts, FedEx/UPS are going to flag the shipper's account. I would wait OP, it's just not worth the risk imo. I'd recheck the forecast for shipping out next Monday as @jrnyc suggests.

 

I've got several boxes packed and ready to go, but am waiting until next week to ship. As long as the communication is good, most folks has been very understanding of the weather. I also still have an incoming box that I have asked a trader to hold off on shipping for almost a month, because its not easily replaced and I don't want to risk it busting.

March is almost here!

 

Just to provide a counterpoint, I've completed two trades with Boston traders in the last two weeks (I'm in Milwaukee, it was -8F this morning, and obviously Boston's had insane weather lately). We didn't want to wait to ship since it was fresh IPA's mostly, so four boxes shipped both ways in below zero temps at night, two sitting over the weekend somewhere along the way. All four arrived in perfect condition, cold beer but far from frozen. IMO the key is very good packing using bubble wrap as an outside layer. Box in a box is even better for insulation. All that said, if your beer freezes don't blame me haha.

 

I won't ship if it's below 25, not worth losing a box. If a trader insists even after you express concerns imo he accepts the liability. Even fresh ipas won't die waiting a week for perhaps better weather. Double box , wrap each bottle in newsprint, it's a great insulator, foam wrap like crazy, extra padding vs a lot of xtras. Bag each bottle and can too, and bag the whole shebang in a trash bag inside the inner box.

 

Has anyone ever tried putting some of those hand warmers in a box. I would think it gives off enough heat to keep the inside of the box a few degrees warmer..

 

I thought about it trying to figure out a way to get a box into upstate NY to my son. I use them hunting I'm guessing it might help for 4-6 hours at the most given how cold it is. On a 2-3 day ship I don't see it helping. I even thought of the spray foam you buy at Home Depot, that might work.

 

Good luck with that....Buffalo, NY has not been above 32 degrees the whole month of February.

I suspended shipping until temps get back to normal. Temps are well below zero overnight here. If he insists on shipping, explain that it is on him if anything happens and it will not be replaced.

 

I've been trying to get beer to my son in Watertown forever now no end in sight. Stupid cold right now.

 

A follow up question. I live in an area that never really freezes and so weather is not something I would normally think about. If the person I trade with proposes a trade is it their responsibility to advise me not to ship because of weather. I would assume if a trade is a go than I would send a box. If a box is sent and the items freeze and beer turns to slush am I responsible for sending replacement bottles?

 

I use a weather app and use the recievers city, so I know, I use weatherbug.

 

Heavily packaging the bottles and box obviously helps somewhat to prevent freezing but what about the motion of the delivery truck? It's something I don't know if I've ever seen mentioned on here. If a beer is on a UPS/FedEx truck, isn't the beer moving inside the bottle when the truck goes over bumps, comes to a stop, etc? And wouldn't this motion help to prevent the beer from freezing?

I'm far from an expert regarding "science stuff" so feel free to correct me if I'm being foolish, but it seems like, if a liquid moves around every once in a while when it's in transit, it's less likely to freeze.

I realize this doesn't mean anything to boxes that are sitting overnight in a warehouse or for hours on a doorstep. I'm just talking about beer specifically when it's on a delivery truck.

 

I'm not sure what the proper protocol is, but I will tell people not to send if it is crappy out. The # I use is 20 degrees. If it gets below 20 outside overnight, I try not to ship.

 

Find a weather app and use your best judgement.
I've had bottles freeze in 25 degree temps and other make it just fine in 5 degrees.
A lot has to do with the shipping time, packing, and abv of the beer.

 

I just don't think its worth it, honestly. Just wait until the weather gets a little bit warmer. I wouldn't ship anything below 8% ABV until the weather warms up...but that's me. I don't want someone getting frozen beers from me and I don't want to open up frozen beers either. Get some good trading down in the warmer months so you don't need to trade during the winter or do some IP trades?

 

How big of a concern is freezing, really? Has anyone had a bad experience where it "ruined" a beer? I've forgotten a 6-pack in my car several times during the winter and never had any noticeable issue once the beer thawed. I just shipped my first trade--fortunately the temps around here have gone back up into the 20's and 30's so I don't anticipate any problems, but I'm curious for future reference. I'm assuming the bigger concern is bottles bursting, but I've never had that happen in all the times I've accidentally let beer freeze. Is that common? Thanks in advance for any feedback.

 

It's a big concern if you live in the frozen tundra of MN.

I have a bit lower threshold than some others have mentioned (my bottom is 10 degrees for incoming/outgoing boxes) & have only had a single shattered bottle in seven years of trading, & that was a 4-5% beer that was caught in an unexpected cold front.

On the other hand, the only bottle I've lost outgoing was sent in the summer - & went unknowingly into 110 degree weather. Popped the top (twist-off), I'm assuming from the extreme heat.

So shipping in the summer isn't perfect, either! Just use some common sense & pack heartily & you should be fine.

 

Thanks. Everything was >9% so I'm not too concerned in this instance. And just to clarify, my post was more about the consequences of freezing than the chances of freezing. As I mentioned I've had it happen at home many times with no adverse effects. If you've been trading from MN for 7 years and only had 1 bottle break due to the cold I'd say that's pretty good. Personally, I don't care if my beer shows up on my doorstep in a solid block of ice as long as the packaging isn't compromised. Just wondering if others have experienced something different in regard to freezing and thawing damaging the beer itself.

 

I won't ship if it's going to be lower than mid teens for a low, even that would have to be with a go ahead from the reciever. Mid 20s is better.