Tried Hands "FarmHands" no longer

Vivant's official statement regarding the matter:

http://www.breweryvivant.com/index.php/who-we-are/news-media/

EDIT: Beat to the punch.

 

.... And the facts finally emerge.

Keep jumping to conclusions, guys. It keeps the lulz to a maximum for me.

 

Sending a C&D letter and devoting attention to making beer are not mutually exclusive. How is a brewery any less of a craft brewery because it takes the time and money to file a trademark application?

 

Haha at all the people in this thread that immediately jump to conclusions. Typical of the BA community to jump to conclusions these days(see what I did there)

 

It presents the facts from their point of view, just as Tired Hands' initial letter states the facts from their own point of view.

Are the names similar? Absolutely. The argument that they have to protect their trademark is completely valid for the reasons that have already been stated, but I can't help but feel Vivant is being slightly hypocritical here with beer names like Menage A Trois when Nebraska Brewing Company has a beer named Melange A Trois that was established before Vivant. It's the same level of subtle difference. Likewise with Sgt. Peppercorn (CBC Sgt Pepper is older), Solitude (HF Society & Solitude #1-7), and Wanda (exact same name by La Birreria in NY).

Clearly that Google search they do that clears up 90% of their issues simply ignores the other 10% when they feel entitled to use the name of their choosing.

 

Both breweries are at fault if craft breweries are supposed to be a "brotherhood"

Vivant for sending the C&D.

Tired Hands for making this public knowledge thus creating Vivant-backlash.

 

How could they change the name of a flagship beer without making it public knowledge?

 

Fortunately for both, any hard feelings among the purchasing public will die off really fast, as their overlap in terms of sales region is effectively zero. If Vivant distro'ed to PA I could see a couple TH supporters cutting back, but even that would reduce Vivant's sales by like .0001%. Plus, no one is going to stop ordering FarmHands because it's called something else after 9/26.

 

So the catalyst for the C/D was at CBC in DC (okay, no more acronyms), a place that neither brewery distributes to (well aware of the distro laws there... but let's be real about either brewery sending product), and Spaulding thinks that it's suddenly an overlap crisis?

Sounds more like poor bar planning than the need* to go through with something like this.


*need, not merits of whether it's valid or not

 

Which one's flagship are you referring to? Vivant says in their statement that Farm Hand is their flagship. (Tired Hands doesn't say Farmhands is theirs') One could argue that HopHands is Tired Hands' flagship.

 

That, or Vivant has big plans for the future, either in expanding their own brand or selling it to a larger company. It would be extremely beneficial to them to protect their brand if their eventual intent was to sell it. Now, I haveabsolutely zero reason to believe that's their future plan, and from the looks of their website and statement, they seem to be very locally focused...I'm just saying for saying's sake.

...or it's because Tired Hands is opening a production facility, and Vivant didn't want to risk having to re-design their packaging if this lawsuit went the other way. I think that's the most likely thing by far. If Tired Hands had FarmHands out in the marketplace for any reasonable length of time, I would think with the Tired Hands name and HopHands being their other signature brew, their claim to the FarmHands name would be pretty strong. Coming from a company who just re-branded, re-branding is very expensive, and for Vivant to risk needing to redesign their packaging would be a big financial hit to them. Tired Hands has no label for FarmHamds that I know of, so it really is likely a case of malice-free self-protection on Vivant's part.

Dick move? Maybe. But, if you're not going to look out for yourself, no one else will. The only part that really rubs me the wrong way is the hypocrisy I mentioned above (and others did as well), but I suppose if the initial owners of those brands feel as strongly about them as Vivant does about Farm Hand, they could take the same action.

 

But that leads to the question, why should people expect smaller breweries to be a brotherhood? I mean you don't really see this in other industries, at least how you see it in the beer industry.

 

FarmHands is definitely a flagship beer for Tired Hands. They have a flagship saison and a flagship pale ale, FarmHands and HopHands, respectively. I think in terms of brand symmetry the naming conventions were pretty smart, but I don't think one is more of a flagship than the other.

I doubt TH changes the name much at all. I think the ____Hands is perfect, I just don't know what could fill that blank. FermeHands perhaps, with Ferme being French for farm?

 

VivantHands

 

Because historically, that's how craft brewers have operated. For example, http://averybrewing.com/our-ales/collaboration-not-litigation-ale/

It's also true because craft customers are not very brand loyal. Do you buy only a certain brewery's IPA, or do you actively seek out new and different ones while in the process returning to old favorites periodically? Craft breweries learned a long time ago that working together to move people away from macro-lagers and towards craft was good for all of them, however it was almost impossible to promote that "explorative" spirit but then in the same breath tell a customer to only buy their beer.

In a lot of other industries, customers are far more brand loyal. If you buy tennis shoes, you're not constantly switching back and forth between 100 brands - you're sticking with one (or maybe two or three) that you like. Same with cars. Same with electronics, etc.

Craft breweries (and small wineries, and smaller spirits producers) know that their good is (relatively) cheap and is something people will frequently purchase, so they're trying to gain total market share. If Dogfish Head, Stone, and Bells all convert one Budweiser customer, odds are each of the three breweries will benefit at some point from each customer. That's a great reason to act as a brotherhood.

All you need to do to see that it works is look at the brewfest calendar across the country. Hundreds of festivals with 40+ breweries. It's exposure to craft beer, not a specific craft beer. Dark Lord Day has guest taps. Hunahpu's Day has guest taps. Brewers collaborate all the time. It's a really good thing.

 

I'm torn on this issue. I live and Grand Rapids, and gotta support the hometown brewery, but Tired Hands' beer is so much better. There are only a couple beers that I like from BV, but everything I've had from TH is killer. I read Jason Spaulding's response and one thing caught my attention. He said that he sent an email to Jean, before the C&D and got no response. Jean does not mention this in his post on TH's website. So why didn't he respond? Did he respond, but it wasn't what Jason wanted to hear?

The tone in Jean's post is that the names aren't the same and a knowledgeable consumer will be able to distinguish the two. I kind of get the feeling that when he got the original email, prior to the C&D, he just blew it off thinking it would never come to this. Then the letter came with the legal mumbo-jumbo and here we are.

I can understand BV's stance, they have to protect the name they have invested in, even if they only just applied for the trademark in May. I'm sure if TH had applied for the trademark earlier, this thread would be in the Great Lakes section, with an entirely different outcome.

So, I still don't like BV's actions as they could have handled it better, like Avery/RR. But maybe not. Maybe TH snubbed them and BV had no choice but to drop the legal hammer. Whew, I need a beer.

 

Somebody send this guy a growler of FarmHandsbefore they chance the name.

I like your view on things. I don't know why it took so long for someone to mention how Adam Avery and Vinnie Cilurzo dealt with the Salvation business. Two decently-sized breweries who took the chance to collaborate. Who knows how things really unfolded, but we see the results when miscommunication occurs. Bummer.

- - Joe

 

BV is taking alot of heat on their Twitter, which is not surprising. But what I did find interesting was the number of their fellow brewers taking TH sides and calling bullshit.

That should mean alot more to BV's "reputation".

 

This is simply an extension of a society that's increasing litigious. Don't like something? Didn't get an answer to a single email? Sic your lawyers on 'em.

I understand Vivant's viewpoint, but really, you couldn't pick up the telephone or try a little harder to work this out? Just because something is legal doesn't mean it's right.

 

I agree with this 100%. A good defense should speak for itself, and if the other members of your community are coming out against you even after you've stated your case, you're at least guilty in the court of opinion.

BV is definitely trying to deflect the heat they're taking towards their statement, but I have to wonder if they expected (or were adequately prepared to deal with) the backlash they're getting, albeit from a very, very small amount of people relative to the amount of people that buy their beer.

Edit: Also, if Hill Farmstead, Pipeworks, and Tired Hands are on one side of a fence and Vivant and Magic Hat are on the other...I know which side of the fence I'm walking to.