Two Apple Juice Beer Experiments

I'm interested to hear how they turn out.

 

As am I. The thing with store bought juice, when making cider, is that it won't leave much fruit character after fermentation...at least not imparted by the juice. That's why those of us that use store bought add things like acid blend and tannin to give it some depth.

I've not tried this, so it may be that the malt and juice make something unexpected...but if you are unhappy with the results, consider modifying the juice next time.

 

The issue isn't what is or is not included with the juice (well unfiltered juice is better than filtered), but that it's the wrong kind of apples for hard cider (or rather not the best apples for making hard cider).

Here's an NPR article that explains some of it:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/20...-makers-get-funky-to-cope-with-apple-shortage

 

What is Special W? Typo for Special B?

I am intrigued by the 3787/oak, definitely want to hear how these turn out.

 

So it's a matter of the apple "juice" versus whats branded as "cider"?

I know in North GA on my way to our place in NC, we past 3 huge orchards in the fall that are ripe with folks getting apples. They have something like.. 12 different apples they use in their cider blend.

 

Speaking of which, I'm interested to see how this comes out.

I've got a New Glarus Apple Ale I just got in a trade, that sounds pretty interesting with wheat added to it..

Brown Ale base with wheat and apples..

 

Not really. "Cider" at the supermarket is just unfiltered apple juice, and that's basically the only difference. They use the same apples for both, and not the apples preferable for hard cider.

 

yes, I am certainly interested, and thanks for posting.

this is good news. something that will keep even the most jaded BA homebrewers intrigued. we have produced maybe a hundred gallons of upstate NY hard cider over the course of many years. we have incorporated the cider into beer very infrequently. cider is our Upstate NY heritage and right as a citizen. all I can offer is this-

1.cider is delicate. the flavor can be easily overwhelmed by malt and hops. i like the low IBUs. Noble hops seem to be the answer. I think a radical NZ hop might be a good experiment.

2. yeast selection and fermentation temps are critical. I have used 1968 with mediocre results. may as well use US-05 in my opinion. never fermented cider with 3787, but I have never been a fan anyway. push the yeast to the limit with cider. the hotter the better. the fusels and funky off flavors work well with the delicate apple aroma imo. my favorite and only cider yeast is Ardennes. high 70s will get it done and low 80s isn't a crime. remember, cider (and perhaps cider beer) should be full of aroma and apple flavors. this is something we might want to crush as beer brewers but you can lose the "appleness" real easy if you are not aggressive.

3. generic store bought cider is almost always crap. maybe too late now, but finding a ma and pa apple orchard can do magic for your brew. this is the one you have driven by for 11 months. stop by and say hi, ask if they have any favorite apples that don't move very well, buy as much you can, pay cash, say thank you multiple times and let them know you'll be back next year. you own that tree. or get generic Red Delicious/unknown crap from the grocery store, pay too much, and get boring cider. bulk cider is trash. you must press your own, have a great supplier, or don't bother. this is a lot to ask of most people, but we are brewers and work for the best as a matter of principle. apples are a commodity. just like Big Macs and Bud Light. think about it...

4. I agree with the KISS method. too much screwing around and you can get dangerously close to losing the essence of nature. water, malt, hops, yeast and now apple. makes itself really.

Look forward to your observations.
Cheers.

 

Well, I was more or less talking about getting it from orchards or places like Whole Foods. I know the orchard on the way to our house sells to whole foods. They do indeed use different apples, and just flash pasteurize it.

 

a lot of small producers are being squeezed by big agro, around here at least. a large UV system with a massive packaging line is just too expensive for most small producers. fine for Kraft Foods though. the middle and small orchards can't compete. it is the law you know.

never mind that the there are zero confirmed health issues related to non pasteurized cider. losing three acres of Rhode Island Greening is apparently less important than maintaining 1,000 acres of Round-Up Ready Crispin. because so long as it's shiny and red, its OK for your kid to eat and fine for your sinful brewing. or something...
Cheers.

 

Fair enough, I was speaking to the standard. Cider is a special blend of apples, varying from orchard to orchard. While cider would be preferable to using "apple juice" as cider attempts to balance sweet and tart flavors, it still doesn't provide the amount of bitter/tartness necessary to make a proper hard cider.

I suppose that's not exactly a universal though, as some orchards might actually be using the types of apples traditionally found in hard cider. It is certainly true that purchasing cider/apples from an orchard will net a superior product overall.

That said, the closest orchard to us, Pine Tree, uses potassium sorbate to preserve/pasteurize their cider. This makes it completely useless to making hard cider. I found out the hard way by purchasing 6 gallons without looking at the label until I got home...which was incredibly dumb on my part.

 

Potassium Sorbate doesn't kill off yeast, it just prevents budding (reproduction). So you just have to way overpitch and forego the esters created during the growth phase. It'll still ferment.

 

Looks interesting, I imagine most flavours will come from the beer bit and the apple juice will just thin it out

This is a very good if slightly outdated looking website for proper cider making if anyone is interested
http://www.cider.org.uk/frameset.htm

I've done turbo cider from store bought apple juice, then added strong tea for tannin etc. It was pretty brutal, no where near as good as a proper cider. I know adding chopped up bramleys/other cookers can improve this method though, treat the juice as the dessert apple portion. Then add the cookers and any crab apples you can find to improve the flavour

 

I think that would depend on how much is in there. Some guy did an experiment using a couple different chemically treated ciders, pitching on top of a yeast cake from a 5g beer...and it would not ferment. He was able to get some fermentation pitching an entire packet of dry yeast into a gallon of juice though.

So, yeah, depends on the amount of sorbate used I should think.

 

Pretty much. And good luck getting the amount used from the processing company. Still, worth a shot if it happens again.

 

Yes, I stopped using pectic enzyme in my ciders. It's certainly not as clear when not using them, but I think the flavor is better. I've not had them side-by-side, but I've used the same basic recipe with and without, and prefer without.

That said, I'm not exactly sure the mechanism, so take it with a grain of salt.

EDIT: After re-reading I don't think I particularly answered your question