Two Questions on a Less Successful Start...

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by sjverla, Oct 7, 2013.

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  1. sjverla

    sjverla Initiate (0) Dec 1, 2008 Massachusetts

    I brewed a session brown ale yesterday and a couple things happened differently than previous batches.

    1) My efficiency only hit 60% and it's usually around 75%. My current conjecture is that since it was such a small grain bill (~7.5 lbs) I lost a good amount of heat due to a smaller thermal mass. And I forgot to wrap my cooler with my usual 'insurance' sleeping bag. I didn't take a temp reading at the end of my mash, so I'm not sure what the loss was - but could this contribute to such a drop in efficiency?

    2) No yeast activity yet. I pitched ~100 mL (according to MrMalty that should have been enough) of fairly thick slurry harvested from a batch 16 days ago and nothing happened. It's been about 16 hours and nothing's happening. Could all the yeast have died over the past couple weeks? It's entirely possible I botched the yeast washing process as well, but I thought my process was pretty sound.

    Thanks!
     
  2. OddNotion

    OddNotion Pooh-Bah (1,915) Nov 1, 2009 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah

    Lower efficiency can be due to a number of things but I doubt a temp drop during the mash is going to hurt it that badly, especially if you hit your temp at the beginning.

    16 hours is not a lot of time, just make sure the carboy is in an area where the temp is good for the yeast. I had a beer take 2 days to take off just a few weeks ago. I agitated it and moved the temp up a couple degrees and had vigorous fermentation by morning.
     
  3. sjverla

    sjverla Initiate (0) Dec 1, 2008 Massachusetts


    Yeah, I would be surprised if it was just the temp. I realize that it's like not a single factor attributable to the drop. In case there are people more knowledgeable about malts/enzymes, etc (which I'm sure there are):

    6.3 Lbs Maris Otter
    2 lbs Golden Promise
    .5 lb C120
    .5 lb Chocolate
    .25 lb C40

    I haven't had a beer yet take more than 6 hours to show some sign. I've agitated a few times and pitched a good bit more yeast and it seems as though a skim of krausen is starting to form.
     
  4. MLucky

    MLucky Initiate (0) Jul 31, 2010 California

    1): What was your mash temp? It's possible a low temperature could affect efficiency, especially if you intended to be around 149 and it dropped down to 146 or below. Enzyme activity just takes more time at the lower temps. Do you batch or fly sparge? It's possible you had some channeling issues. And at the risk of making this way more complicated than it needs to be: you might look at your water and how that particular grist might interact with your water chemisty. It's possible your pH got a little out of whack, although that doesn't seem especially likely, given that this was a darker beer.

    2): Could be anything. Not time to worry, yet.
     
  5. sjverla

    sjverla Initiate (0) Dec 1, 2008 Massachusetts


    Mashed at 152 with 1.33 qts/gallon. Sparged at 170 with 5 gallons for an even 6 gallons of pre-boil wort. I've looked into my water chemistry with fledgling eyes and it seems like it's pretty good for dark beers. I do some adjustment of hoppy ones.
     
  6. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    For your consideration, below is an extract from a presentation Kai Troester provided at the 2010 NHC:http://braukaiser.com/download/Troester_NHC_2010_Efficiency.pdf

    Temperature: The hotter the better for efficiency (until 75-80 C / 167–176 F).
    But temperature is needed to control fermentability. The lower the temp the
    longer it takes for full mash conversion


    Time: the longer the better. But there will be a time when conversion
    efficiency doesn't change or changes only little. Extended mashing extracts
    more tannins and mash may spoil.


    pH: alpha amylase optimum is at pH 5.6 – 5.8 But: other benefits shift the
    optimal mash pH towards 5.4 – 5.6 (room temperature sample)


    milling: the finer the faster and more complete the conversion. But: mash
    tun design and lauter practice set a limit to how fine one can go. The
    absence of channeling may allow finer grists for batch sparging than for fly
    sparging. Malt conditioning can mitigate run-off problems

    .
    mash thickness: thinner mashes convert faster and more easily. Thick
    mashes impede starch gelatinization and inhibit alpha amylase activity. Even 6 l/kg (3 qt/lb) is not too thin.


    mash schedule: the more intense the better the conversion. Single infusion
    -> least intense. Decoction mashing -> most intense. But: you should not
    have to resort to triple decoction mashing to fix low conversion efficiencies.


    “Mash out”: raises temp to supercharge alpha amylase. Can convert more
    starches (i.e. raise conversion efficiency) if conversion was not complete
    before this point


    Diastatic power: The darker the malt the lower its enzymatic strength
    (generally). Only a problem in Munich malt or adjunct mashes. Some light
    malt helps as “enzymatic boost” in dark malt mashes.


    Cheers!
     
    sjverla likes this.
  7. sjverla

    sjverla Initiate (0) Dec 1, 2008 Massachusetts

    Thanks Jack! Very insightful!
     
  8. Naugled

    Naugled Pooh-Bah (1,944) Sep 25, 2007 New York
    Pooh-Bah

    Did you mill your own grain? What kind of mill? In my experience the first thing to investigate when you get a poor efficiency is the crush.
     
    jsullivan02130 likes this.
  9. sjverla

    sjverla Initiate (0) Dec 1, 2008 Massachusetts

    I did not. LHBS did. I believe they have it set to .039. I've brewed with their grain/crush before with normal efficiency.
     
  10. Naugled

    Naugled Pooh-Bah (1,944) Sep 25, 2007 New York
    Pooh-Bah

    Things can happen at the LHBS, you never know who has been monkeying with the mill. What kind of mill do they have there?

    I've had the gap change in my mill unknowingly and I didn't realize it until after the mash. You should get familiar with what a good crush looks like. So if it doesn't look fine enough for you, you can adjust mill and run it through again. I crush my malt fine, I get tons off flour, but depending on your system that isn't always a problem.
     
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