Two step lager starter question

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by BeboThoughts, Feb 6, 2014.

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  1. BeboThoughts

    BeboThoughts Zealot (559) Mar 24, 2012 Canada (ON)
    Trader

    Planning my first lager brew and I'm trying to get a big enough starter built up. 2L flask and a stir plate so I'll need to do a two-stage starter. I've never done one before so do these numbers look right?

    Need roughly 390 billion cells (5 gal, 1.050 OG Helles)
    MFG date: DEC 17th. Brewers Friend says 65% Viability.

    1st step - 1L 1.036 starter. Ends at 208 billion cells (0.81M cells/ml/deg P)

    2nd step - 2L 1.036 starter. Ends at 495 billion cells (1.92M cells/ml/deg P)

    I've read that it's always best to double the size of the starter between steps so that's why I went from 1L to 2L. I don't mind overpitching on a lager so ending at 495billion (if that sounds right?) isn't an issue.

    I guess I'm just hoping for some guidance, is this a good idea, how long to sit on the stir plate, potential pitfalls, etc.

    TIA
     
    #1 BeboThoughts, Feb 6, 2014
  2. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    I don't know why that would be. Generally the second step will be a bigger volume than the first because of the way innoculation rates (cells per volume) work out, but I wouldn't say that there's a hard and fast rule. BTW, the BrewCipher spreadsheet does stepped starter recommendations automatically.
     
    #2 VikeMan, Feb 6, 2014
  3. BeboThoughts

    BeboThoughts Zealot (559) Mar 24, 2012 Canada (ON)
    Trader

    Nice spreadsheet. Really easy to setup/use. It says my second stage starter should be 2.4 Quarts. I only have a 2L flask. Is there a way to set a max size for starters?
     
    #3 BeboThoughts, Feb 6, 2014
  4. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    There's no max size parameter per se. But there is a parameter (on the Brewhouse tab) called "Min Step Innoc Rate (millions cells / ml)"
    The recommended value is 25. But if you want to force smaller steps, you can set this parameter to a higher value and it will drive steps smaller (and cause additional steps) if applicable. If that doesn't work for you, beermail me and we'll figure something out, or possibly add another parameter.
     
    #4 VikeMan, Feb 6, 2014
  5. ChrisMyhre

    ChrisMyhre Initiate (0) Sep 15, 2013 Massachusetts

    In a pinch you can also use a 1 gallon distilled water jug that has been thoroughly steralized on the outside/ lip/ top. I've done this when the starter needed to be too big for my 2L flask with no ill effects. I have a few bigger starter beers coming up and am about to buy a larger flash though too.
     
    #5 ChrisMyhre, Feb 6, 2014
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