Uh oh....

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by Seatazzz, Feb 15, 2016.

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  1. Seatazzz

    Seatazzz Initiate (0) Jan 28, 2016 Washington

    I brewed what I call a Hoppy Pils last Saturday. 10 lbs light pilsner 2 row, 1/2 lbs carapils, 1 lb DME, hops are Citra & Columbus (only because I like them a lot). 'Twas my first attempt at BIAB, and I failed miserably. Bag got stuck to the bottom of the kettle (yeah I know, didn't clip the bag sides up to avoid it) so rather than a full mash in the kettle had to dump it into the mash tun to finish up. Temp was all over the place but managed to keep it close to 150. SG after cooling was 1.066. With not much hope I pitched US-05 and left it on its own. My brew room stays at a pretty steady 65-68. Tested a sample yesterday evening-beer temp is 68, and the hydrometer shows 1.010 on the nose. Here's the sad part-smells a bit "metally" (only thing I can think of to describe it) and the taste is sour. Not horribly so, but it's there, more of a "tang" than something nasty. There's nothing on the surface of the beer that points to an infection that I can see (will post a pic when I get home). Any ideas?
     
  2. premierpro

    premierpro Savant (1,060) Mar 21, 2009 Michigan

    Sounds like young beer. Additional conditioning should take care of this.
     
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  3. Seatazzz

    Seatazzz Initiate (0) Jan 28, 2016 Washington

    Thanks, that's what I'm hoping for. I'm going to test it again tomorrow and if it's stable I'll dry hop it, although I'd kinda like to leave it alone another week to see if it mellows out a bit more. I know there's nothing wrong with that, I'm learning more patience as I keep going and I've got a fabulous Racer 5 clone in bottles that is drinkable now.
     
  4. Eriktheipaman

    Eriktheipaman Pooh-Bah (2,303) Sep 4, 2010 California
    Pooh-Bah

    Could be contamination, but who knows. I would just let it sit for another couple weeks and see what happens.

    I'm not a stickler for style guidelines but it sounds like you brewed a pale ale instead of a pilsner.
     
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  5. OldBrewer

    OldBrewer Maven (1,385) Jan 13, 2016 Canada (ON)

    Pilsners are usually fermented at temperatures around 50 F. US-05 is not a typical Pilsner yeast, and the hops are not typically used in Pilsners. The only ingredient that is used in Pilsners is the Pilsner malt and the carapils. At best, you might end up with a type of cross between an ale and a Kolsch, but more likely an ale. Let it sit on the yeast in the primary for at least 2-3 weeks. The yeast needs time to clean up.
     
    #5 OldBrewer, Feb 15, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2016
  6. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    What do you see in the OP's recipe or process that suggests any affinity to a Kolsch?
     
  7. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,057) May 30, 2005 Michigan
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    Was your bag melted to the bottom of your kettle or just stuck in some charred/scorched sugar? The melted bag or charred sugars could be the source of the odd flavors, but I'd guess first that it just needs some conditioning.
     
  8. OldBrewer

    OldBrewer Maven (1,385) Jan 13, 2016 Canada (ON)

    Not much - only the Pilsner malt, the carapils, the temperature, and the US-05 is sometimes used in Kolsch kits. The hops are right out of style.
     
  9. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    If there are Kolsch kits with carapils and US-05, I'd think I'd buy kits elsewhere. Carapils has no place in the style IMO. And US-05? I dunno. Maybe in a pinch, but there are better and more authentic strains for Kolsch. I'm curious as to whose Kolsch kit includes Carapils.
     
  10. CarolusP

    CarolusP Zealot (590) Oct 22, 2015 Minnesota

    I can't speak to your off-flavors, but having a few BIAB brews under my belt now, I would suggest grabbing a blanket or investing in some reflective insulation. Typically I heat up to my strike water, kill the heat, insert the bag, add the grain, then wrap up the whole kettle with the insulation. I only lose about 1-2 degrees over the course of a full hour mash without having to start up the heat again. This avoids the risk of scorching the bag on the bottom of the kettle...something I was a bit paranoid about when I began.

    If you're doing a step mash, then you can ignore my suggestion.
     
  11. OldBrewer

    OldBrewer Maven (1,385) Jan 13, 2016 Canada (ON)

    It surprised me as well. I think it only has a pinch of Carapils for head retention. It's certainly not recommended, but I have seen a pinch used in several recipes before. Also, Steamworks in Vancouver makes a popular commercial Kolsch, and their can (I have one in front of me) lists the malt ingredients as: Pilsner, Carapils and Wheat.

    But I've never tried one of the kits yet to see how it turned out (never will purchase one). A friend will be making one from a local supplier in the near future, so I'll try it then. I don't have high hopes.
     
    #11 OldBrewer, Feb 15, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2016
  12. Seatazzz

    Seatazzz Initiate (0) Jan 28, 2016 Washington

    Thanks for all the replies, fellas. Yes the bag melted to the bottom of the pot, but only in about a 3 inch circle. Once I saw it (about 35 minutes into the mash) I dumped the whole thing into the mash tun (losing about 1/4 pound of mash on the floor as the kettle was HEAVY), had my sparge water all ready so did a batch sparge. I'm still a noob and learning about the different styles-my goal was a mimic of the beer I just bottled but in a larger quantity, it's a super hoppy session IPA at about 4% abv.

    Carolus, your process looks like something easier than what I was trying, I have another bag and will give it a shot on my next brew which will probably be a hefe.
     
  13. inchrisin

    inchrisin Pooh-Bah (2,013) Sep 25, 2008 Indiana
    Pooh-Bah

    OP called it a Pils and brewed it at ale temp. Nailed it. :slight_smile:

    @Seatazzz Ride it out. Your beer is one week old. It should taste like crap. Most beers take 6+ weeks before you want to go near it. Metal might be an equipment error, but you'll taste that 2-4 months from now if it is. Wait before you point a finger at procedure or ingredients. For now, blame it for being a young beer.
     
    #13 inchrisin, Feb 15, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2016
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  14. pittvkyle7

    pittvkyle7 Initiate (0) Apr 16, 2007 Connecticut

    You should expect some sort of off-flavor from burning the bag. Sorry!
    Once I did a step mash that scorched just a little grain in my mashtun. It ended ruining the finished beer. Even after aging and flavoring...
    But who knows, you might get lucky
     
  15. Seatazzz

    Seatazzz Initiate (0) Jan 28, 2016 Washington

    I know I should just leave it, but I just tested and tasted again. SG is still at 1.010 and the "metal" taste and smell is fading. Was going to rack it off the yeast tonight into a secondary but cooler heads (meaning all you guys) have prevailed and I will leave it another week. My friends keep asking me what's the most difficult part of brewing and I tell them all, PATIENCE!!!! Besides, this almost perfect racer 5 clone ain't gonna drink itself....almost sorry I promised a couple of bombers to workmates. As long as they bring the empties back.....
     
  16. inchrisin

    inchrisin Pooh-Bah (2,013) Sep 25, 2008 Indiana
    Pooh-Bah

    They never do. :grinning:
     
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  17. Brewday

    Brewday Zealot (721) Dec 25, 2015 New York

    What i like to do is instead of doing a biab, i put a bag inside the perforated steamer basket that came with my turkey fryer and place that inside a fermenting bucket. Pour the cooled wort into the bag and slowly lift and drain. Sanitize everything of course before using.
     
  18. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,635) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    Or if they do, a science experiment is growing in them.
     
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  19. Seacoastbrewer

    Seacoastbrewer Initiate (0) Jun 5, 2012 New Hampshire

    A friend of mine just brewed a kolsch as his 2nd batch. I was surprised to see the kit include a packet of US-05. A quick google search shows the top two results include this yeast.

    http://www.northernbrewer.com/kolsch-extract-kit
    http://www.midwestsupplies.com/cologne-kolsch-kit.html

    My personal opinion is that it probably wont matter much IF the recipe is one of your first several batches. I can only imagine it would matter if that person were entering it in a competition as a Kolsch. Would a liquid Kolsch yeast strain be more stylistically appropriate? Sure.
     
  20. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    I think you'll find that US-05 is the dry yeast option for just about anything they are selling, whenever there's no dry version of the appropriate strain. But it's not to style. Without looking, I'll bet a dollar that the liquid yeast option is not Chico. Because they know that.
     
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