Updates to the Top Rated Beers (Part Two)

Discussion in 'BeerAdvocate Talk' started by Todd, Jul 24, 2019.

  1. Todd

    Todd Founder (5,654) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew

    Based on recent feedback, the following updates have just been applied:
    • All eligible beers are now assigned a style and overall ranking. You'll see both on the beer's page now and rankings update daily. Adding an overall ranking allowed us to:
      • Bring back the Top 250, Beers of Fame, and Most Popular! :heart_eyes:
      • Bring back Top Rated for countries and states/provinces (US, Canada, UK). :hugging:
      • Add Trending. This kind of lived on the main Beers page as a sidebar, but it's new and improved.
    • The new Top Rated for Styles have been folded into all of this.
    • Quick links added so you can easily move around the Top Rated pages. :+1:
    • Redirects have been put into place for the old lists.
    • A bunch of cosmetic updates.
    The lists live here now: https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/top-rated/

    Notes:
    • The BA Score hasn't changed from the last update.
    • Currently the BA Score is displayed for Top Rated lists vs. the Average.
    • Beers are ordered by their style or overall ranking for efficiency.
    • Please suggest and edit if a beer needs to be retired or if it's been dropped into the wrong style (not what you think it should be, but wrong). You can do so under "Beer Tools" at the top of each beer page.
    I think that's it for now. But I'm sure there will be a few other tweaks before things settle down. In the meantime, thanks to everyone who provided valuable feedback that made these updates possible.

    I need a beer now.

    Cheers! :beers:

    Todd
     
  2. cryptichead

    cryptichead Meyvn (1,360) Jul 3, 2014 Illinois
    Society Trader

    At first glance, looks fantastic!
     
  3. JLK7299

    JLK7299 Meyvn (1,062) Apr 21, 2016 North Carolina
    Society Trader

    THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  4. Todd

    Todd Founder (5,654) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew

    Not perfect, but it's getting there.
     
  5. beergoot

    beergoot Poo-Bah (4,949) Oct 11, 2010 Colorado
    Society Trader

    I like the 'Trending' Category along with the old-school 'Top 250' and 'Popular'. Nice break out of top beers from several angles...
     
  6. jvgoor3786

    jvgoor3786 Poo-Bah (1,677) May 28, 2015 Arkansas
    Society Trader

    Love it! Thanks for listening to the feedback and acting so quickly! That's one of the reasons I love this site and The Bros.
     
    MNAle, AlcahueteJ, Eman17 and 6 others like this.
  7. mig100

    mig100 Meyvn (1,366) Aug 3, 2014 Texas
    Society Trader

    This kicks ass. Cheers!
     
  8. MJSFS

    MJSFS Champion (821) Apr 22, 2015 Florida
    Society

    Wow! Overall and Style rankings! Love it

    This is the services I paid for! You guys rock!
     
    JediMasterLenin and Todd like this.
  9. fthegiants

    fthegiants Poo-Bah (1,567) Nov 20, 2013 California
    Society Trader

    Thank you!!
     
    JediMasterLenin and Todd like this.
  10. Ajlvt

    Ajlvt Devotee (492) Jun 7, 2011 Washington
    Trader

    thanks. bringing back the top new beers list would also be appreciated
     
    JediMasterLenin, fthegiants and Todd like this.
  11. hopley

    hopley Meyvn (1,341) Feb 24, 2010 Massachusetts
    Society Trader

    Fantastic, looks better than ever before! Thanks Todd!
     
    JediMasterLenin, FBarber and Todd like this.
  12. Gambyt20

    Gambyt20 Crusader (745) Jan 14, 2016 Illinois
    Trader

    Thank you!!! This is awesome!
     
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  13. Chuckdiesel24

    Chuckdiesel24 Meyvn (1,115) Jul 6, 2016 Illinois
    Trader

    This is great. Thanks for listening! The changes made with how the ranking is displayed and calculated were very good ideas, as was putting more focus on style. But losing the other lists was bad. Obviously my opinion, but seemed to be one held by quite a few.
     
    JediMasterLenin and Todd like this.
  14. mig100

    mig100 Meyvn (1,366) Aug 3, 2014 Texas
    Society Trader

    Not to get too picky, but considering literally all the scores on the Top 250 are between 98-100 it would be helpful to get the averages displayed there too.
     
    hopley, JediMasterLenin and beertunes like this.
  15. Todd

    Todd Founder (5,654) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew

    I've been considering it, but it could be confusing for many as the sorting isn't by average.
     
  16. Todd

    Todd Founder (5,654) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew

    I was working on it, but took a beer break.
     
    MNAle, bbtkd, AlcahueteJ and 15 others like this.
  17. Snowcrash000

    Snowcrash000 Poo-Bah (2,039) Oct 4, 2017 Germany
    Moderator Society Trader

  18. Todd

    Todd Founder (5,654) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew

    Sure. I put the 1-5 range in How to Review a Beer. There's not much difference. "Exceptional" was removed, and "Outstanding" was widened a bit.
     
  19. Bhubbard34

    Bhubbard34 Initiate (65) Mar 4, 2016 Pennsylvania
    Trader

    Thank you for bringing back the lists along with the other changes! Looks great!!
     
    JediMasterLenin and Todd like this.
  20. Todd

    Todd Founder (5,654) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew

    Done.
     
  21. JLK7299

    JLK7299 Meyvn (1,062) Apr 21, 2016 North Carolina
    Society Trader

    Also, I got back the 20 I lost after the previous update! Now at 181. I’m going to get there!
     
  22. Snowcrash000

    Snowcrash000 Poo-Bah (2,039) Oct 4, 2017 Germany
    Moderator Society Trader

    Great, thanks!
     
    JediMasterLenin and Todd like this.
  23. hopley

    hopley Meyvn (1,341) Feb 24, 2010 Massachusetts
    Society Trader

    I would agree with this - adding back the "BA Score" in between the "Score" and "Yours" would be helpful.

    Given that all the scores are between 98 - 100 with the exception of 2 - it begs to question - how far can the list go on with this being the case? One thought is to add a decimal point - but this would probably be too messy to the eye. The other thought is to adjust your 1 - 100 scale - I think it's too liberal. Example - I drank a Trillium Pilsner a few days ago that rates a 3.92 based on BA's 1 - 5 scale; but on the 1 - 100 - it received an 85, or a "very good". That doesn't translate to me. A 3.92 isn't very good at all, I'd suggest it's something closer to something in the mid to high 70s. I'm sure there's some sliding scale that can easily correlate this. In effect, that would lower most of the ratings.

    A problem with this - is that the BA scores, if and when they start getting taped up next to Untappd scores in liquor stores, might be seen to be across the board lower than Untappd scores - so liquor stores may avoid using BA scores if this is the case. Anyway, I'm sure I could carry this logic further but I'll let others do it in case my logic is flawed...or add to it if not. Thanks and cheers!
     
  24. Todd

    Todd Founder (5,654) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew

    That's your opinion, and the BA Score (based on the weighted rank within the beer's style) and average (truncated mean) aren't the same.

    You also gave it a 3.61, which on the 1-5 scale is "Good."
     
  25. Todd

    Todd Founder (5,654) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew

    We've been told numerous times by stores (and others in the industry) that they stopped using our scores when we switch to the raw 1-5 average as the BA Score.
     
  26. cryptichead

    cryptichead Meyvn (1,360) Jul 3, 2014 Illinois
    Society Trader

    Noticed that in the Top Rated List for Trending beers, the numbers in the Ratings column deviate from the actual reviews or ratings for those beers.
     
  27. AZBeerDude72

    AZBeerDude72 Poo-Bah (1,776) Jun 10, 2016 Arizona
    Society Trader

    Looks good to me, cool that so many people added comments and allowed for this tweak in order to make it work for everyone.
    Cheers:beers:
     
  28. winehead247

    winehead247 Disciple (305) May 25, 2016 Georgia
    Society Trader

    Awesome thanks for the work, Todd
     
    Todd likes this.
  29. Harrison8

    Harrison8 Poo-Bah (3,556) Dec 6, 2015 Missouri
    Society Trader

    Ability to quickly navigate 'top' lists to narrow into specific categories is much improved over the old. It's great to have the lists back as well.

    Thanks for taking our feedback into consideration, @Todd .
     
    AlcahueteJ, Bhubbard34 and Todd like this.
  30. Todd

    Todd Founder (5,654) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew

    As noted, the BA Score is displayed on Top Rated Beer lists. But lists are not ordered by BA Score (or Average). They're ordered by the beer's ranking or style ranking unless noted otherwise; see Popular, where beers are ordered by number of ratings.
     
    FBarber and AlcahueteJ like this.
  31. shelby415

    shelby415 Champion (865) Oct 10, 2011 Oregon
    Trader

    Love having the lists back and the new navigation is way better. I've always thought having the beer listing show where the beer ranks would be nice and now it's there!

    A side note- has Red / Amber ales always been listed under the Pale Ales category while Red / Amber lagers are listed under the Dark Lagers? Seems like an odd discrepancy.

    Otherwise, thanks for the quick action on this. It shows how much you value the community's input.
     
    AZBeerDude72 and Todd like this.
  32. Todd

    Todd Founder (5,654) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew

    No, but that's only because the parent categories that we have now are new (and unrelated to any of these updates). They're also loosely based off of the Brewers Association's style guidelines.
     
    FBarber, AlcahueteJ and shelby415 like this.
  33. cryptichead

    cryptichead Meyvn (1,360) Jul 3, 2014 Illinois
    Society Trader

    In the Trending List: in the Ratings column, #1 beer is Phase Change and it shows as 80 ratings in the Ratings Column. When I click on the beer profile, the actual number of ratings is 186. Same issue with all other beers in that list. Is that intentional?
     
  34. Todd

    Todd Founder (5,654) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew

    It's accurate, but needs some clarification. That's the number of recent ratings, not the total.
     
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  35. cryptichead

    cryptichead Meyvn (1,360) Jul 3, 2014 Illinois
    Society Trader

    Ah, understood.
     
    Todd likes this.
  36. ktr5010

    ktr5010 Disciple (357) Dec 12, 2014 Illinois
    Society Trader

    So without clicking on each beer, how do you differentiate between two scores of 100? Beers on the old scale that have 4.52 and 4.7 are now essentially the same other than where they are on the list. I guess I liked the granularity of the old system and if a ton of beers are 100 how do you tell them apart?
     
    AlcahueteJ likes this.
  37. mig100

    mig100 Meyvn (1,366) Aug 3, 2014 Texas
    Society Trader

    I witnessed this happen over the years. So, I fully support your reason for re-adding it, but think that the average being a focus as well is more beneficial for users - which is ultimately more important for the longevity of the site/app.
     
  38. stevepat

    stevepat Crusader (718) Mar 12, 2013 California
    Trader

    Looks great, better than before for sure. You guys are really awesome, i appreciate the constant effort to improve and the engagement with feedback, including negative feedback. Thanks again for everything
     
    meefmoff, mig100 and Todd like this.
  39. REVZEB

    REVZEB Poo-Bah (5,446) Mar 28, 2013 Illinois
    Society

    Everything looks great! Thank you!
     
    Todd likes this.
  40. Todd

    Todd Founder (5,654) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew

    I've done some more thinking about displaying the Average on the Top Rated Beer pages vs. the BA Score. As the Average is already displayed on other lists and the beer's page, we might as well keep things consistent and useful. @mig100 is right. The granularity makes it easier to compare beers on a list without clicking and the rDev color coding on your rating makes more sense.

    Please note that most list are sorted by the beer's weighted rank, which isn't shown.