Upright Freezer Fermentation Chamber

No insight on the freezer.....just a congrats on the new bride, new house and the new brewing R&D facility.

 

@billandsuz

 

I don't know a whole lot about compressor lifespans, so I paged someone who probably does. My thought is that it's on/off cycles that tend to kill them, and not so much a higher temperature operating range.

But... what freezer are you looking at? I've been looking around for an appropriate upright, but haven't found something that checks all the boxes. Currently recirculating ice water through a cooling jacket.

 

Based on my experience the tech is out in left field. I use a chest freezer for both ferm temps and lagering and it's kept outdoors (south Florida). It was bought used and has been humming along with my beer for over three years.

The caveat is the hotter the outside temp the higher you want the differential setting. Sounds wrong but the key is to prevent rapid cycling of the compressor. Essentially you want the freezer to cycle as it normally does, just at a higher set temp. During summer (9 months out of the year down here) I'll use a diff around 8, sometimes as high as 10. Ideally you don't want the compressor to cycle more than about once an hour. If you keep the freezer full of liquids (not a problem with a 23 gal primary) your wort temp will barely move. Once your primary has stabilized, you will only have tiny deviations of wort temp with this high diff (if you cycle hourly). It really takes a long time to move the temperature of that much liquid. I use a thermowell to measure and it rarely moves more than ~0.2°F during the extreme ends of a cycle, and that's with a 5 gal primary. I keep a 750ml bottle of water with a thermo inserted as a back-up and it stays rock steady while the air temp is swinging 8 degrees. Of course the wort temp will vary based on yeast activity, but you know how to anticipate that.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it . . .

The only problem I foresee is it might be tough to push around those fermenters/brite tanks (maybe enlist the new wife?). . . you're talking the weight of an NFL linebacker.

 

I would be interested to find out how much the repair of the True will cost. Both True and Bev Air are notable for being robust and easy to repair. Also pretty expensive relative to other equipment. This is important for commercial use. Nobody can be without refrigeration for more than a very short while after all. HVAC techs will typically have all the parts right in the truck, the compressor can be pulled out of the front, fixed and back in service very quickly.

@PortLargo is spot on. Compressor cycles are the concern here. Every start up cycle causes more wear then the constant running. Like riding a bike. It takes more energy to get going from dead stop. Maintaining speed is easy. When an electric motor starts the lights dim.

A typical refrigeration duty cycle is 50/50 or 40/60. That is on for half hour off for half hour etc. To get to 0 degrees the compressor needs to run longer than it does to maintain 45, so if you are using an outboard controller the duty cycle goes up. Maintaining liquid temps is not too hard and a cut in temp diff of 5 degrees should not be any problem. Electronic controllers also have a manual lockout control that will prevent the compressor cycling for a set time, and that is built in for exactly this reason. Set that for 15 minutes or so and I think you will be fine. I think so anyway.

For an upright, it should have removable shelves. Some upright freezers will have the cooling coils built right into the shelving and they can't be removed. Same with auto defrost. The heat wire is on the shelf.

If you are adventurous and have some space consider building a cooling chamber or small room with a CoolBot. I have worked in a few of these DIY cold rooms and while not ideal for commercial purposes (the system can't handle door openings) the CoolBot is ideal for DIY home use.

Cheers.

 

It has been my experience that seeing the appliance in person is important. Notice that every model has 30 nearly identical models... model FGY2201XP45 model FGY22001PP45-A etc. The online description is unreliable. Bring a tape measure, head down to Lowes and across the street to Home Depot. Then to the local Ma and Pa appliance sales. KMart and Sears while you still can.

Cheers.

 

There will probably be a problem with that. With a diff of 1 (measured in a thermowell) you will absolutely maintain a wort temp within that range which is pretty good. But, to move the temp of 23 gallons expect the unit to run for hours to drop a single degree and then be off for hours until it rises again. You might want to test this in a 5 gal bucket of water. My approach is to measure air temp and use a higher differential. This means you must account for the exothermic rise due to yeast activity. When ferm'ing, I check Mr. Freezer once in the morning (thermowell reading) and adjust external controller that is measuring the air. Then once again in the afternoon. That usually keeps the wort at a temp well within a one degree range. Typically the unit will run about 10-20 minutes per hour, similar to your kitchen fridge (have you ever noticed the milk too hot/cold based on run cycle?). But this requires you to be present to fine tune the temp based on yeast-cycle.

The ideal solution would be having a very accurate thermowell probe (that measured in tenths of degree) that controlled the compressor. I've used Ranco and Inkbird and while accurate they measure in whole degrees, this swing will have excessive run times (IMO), and I'm doing only 5 gal batches.

The method I've described works well for me while ferm'ing. But cold crashing takes a long time. For me to drop from mid-60s to 40 takes over 24 hours. I would expect your big-boys to take longer, maybe pushing 48 hours but that's a guess. Keep in mind I'm talking small homebrew batches and you're brewing like a pro now.

Just looked at your freezer model, I would be careful that the door shelves do not extend too far into the freezer section. I had to sawzall one fridge-door once to allow more interior room. That's doable but would make me cringe to hack-up a brand new freezer. Also, be wary if the deck (interior bottom) is strong enough for the weight. I wouldn't turn my nose up at a scratch/dent model . . . pretty sure it will end up that way.

While I believe the freezer could work for you, consider a commercial glycol chiller (your True is a perfect insulated box). They are only a little bit more expensive but are designed to specifically accomplish your task (does your wife bring home a paycheck?) . . . and . . . you are a professional brewer now . . .

 

True is over built. True and Bev Air use old school mechanical equipment with no electronic controls. The only changes made for modernity is they use an LED light instead of incandescent now. Unless they have changed up the compressor equipment; I don't fix then I just break them.

I don't see any reason you can't run the unit at a slightly elevated temp. A lot of bars have the unit set too warm already. Just don't cycle the poor thing to death. If I had to warranty the work though, yeah I wouldn't do that if I knew the client was going to slap on an outboard t-stat. That's just smart business.

If you fix it and it is can be cleaned for sale you can get a good price. Might take some time to find the buyer but it will happen.

Cheers

 

In my opinion you would be better served getting an old used upright chest freezer as I think older models have beefier compressors that are harder to destroy even with more frequent cycling. I have a 15 year old chest freezer (I’ve had for approx 2.5 years) on an external that runs like a clock in my garage in 95 degree heat where I see people complaining about newer models dying more frequently. I would look into an external latch to reduce temperature escape from an upright model as sometimes the seals still leak on upright models.

 

Looks like the bottom of the inside is pretty high. How would you roll anything in/out?

 

Would probably need to reinforce the bottom (or whichever) shelf of the freezer. Maybe with some 3/4" plywood, or similar.

 

Bill (@billandsuz), hoptualBrew could fix his existing unit for $580 or purchase a new upright freezer for $800 - 900. What would you choose to do here?

Cheers!

 

Hmm. I'm spending someone else's money? That's easy. Both.

If the True unit is clean and can be sold, I think I would fix it, use it and see how I like it. There is a market for used True and Bev Air but a lot of those things are really beat up. You can always sell the thing. Of course it depends a bit on how much was paid for the unit in the first place.

For reference, we bought 2 used 2 door Beverage Air 2 tower coolers, and needed to replace all of the keg equipment (couplers, lines, towers etc.) for $1k each, cash. We were able to sell each for $1,500 and the buyer got a good deal too. We should have charged him more

So $580 to get a True that is basically new, that seems like a good deal.

I think that is what I would do.

Edit-
I'm not sure how a conical gets inside a 2 door cooler?

 

It must fit since @hoptualBrew posted:

"Anyways, I have a few 21 gallon kettles from Stout, a 23 gallon SS conical, and a 20 gallon SS Brewtech brite tank. For the past three batches I have used a double door True beverage cooler to ferment, crash, condition, carb, keg."

Cheers!

 

@billandsuz, is there something peculiar about the True Beverage cooler's compressor design vs. a compressor for an upright freezer? Why would an upright freezer's compressor last for this application but for the True compressor: "just kill the new compressor within months"?

Cheers!