Using brett as a primary yeast for a stout....

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by atomeyes, Nov 8, 2012.

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  1. atomeyes

    atomeyes Initiate (0) Jul 13, 2011 Canada (ON)

    Wondering if anyone's tried this for a darker beer.
    i can imagine brett lambicus tasting nice if its the primary yeast for a slightly bitter stout.

    any thoughts?
     
    #1 atomeyes, Nov 8, 2012
  2. OldSock

    OldSock Maven (1,418) Apr 3, 2005 District of Columbia

    #2 OldSock, Nov 8, 2012
    rmalinowski4 likes this.
  3. atomeyes

    atomeyes Initiate (0) Jul 13, 2011 Canada (ON)

    dude,
    one day, i'm going to fly to this Wonderland you live in and brew and drink with you and your friends....
     
    #3 atomeyes, Nov 8, 2012
  4. OddNotion

    OddNotion Pooh-Bah (1,915) Nov 1, 2009 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah

    Great idea, I think I will try making my porter with some Brett L one of these days. I have a Brett L saison on tap now, very good and I want to work more with Brett.
     
    #4 OddNotion, Nov 8, 2012
  5. OldSock

    OldSock Maven (1,418) Apr 3, 2005 District of Columbia

    If you ever find yourself in DC and thirsty, let me know.
     
    #5 OldSock, Nov 8, 2012
    atomeyes likes this.
  6. chocosushi

    chocosushi Initiate (0) May 1, 2011 Oklahoma

    Brett is a fantastic primary strain, just a make a huge yeast starter & you'll be golden.
     
    #6 chocosushi, Nov 8, 2012
  7. atomeyes

    atomeyes Initiate (0) Jul 13, 2011 Canada (ON)

    if i ever find myself ANYWHERE and not thirsty, i'll let you know.
    otherwise, if we're in DC, we'll let you know :slight_smile:
     
    #7 atomeyes, Nov 8, 2012
  8. atomeyes

    atomeyes Initiate (0) Jul 13, 2011 Canada (ON)

    2 litres of starter, 2 weeks fermenting and 2 vials of Brett (sadly, from White labs, since I don't have easy access to Wyeth)
     
    #8 atomeyes, Nov 8, 2012
  9. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Pooh-Bah (2,552) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon
    Pooh-Bah

    Wondering if anyone could offer some information on what a "huge starter" is when it comes to Brett? Are we talking 10% more cells than what would be needed to ferment with an Ale strain, 25% more, 50% more?
     
    #9 jbakajust1, Nov 9, 2012
  10. LeeryLeprechaun

    LeeryLeprechaun Savant (1,094) Jan 30, 2011 Colorado
    Trader

    You should do 1 million cells/mL/degree plato. That is according to Chad at Crooked Stave who does a number of all brett beers. Then ferment at 68-72 F and you should be fine in about 3-4 weeks.
     
    #10 LeeryLeprechaun, Nov 9, 2012
  11. OldSock

    OldSock Maven (1,418) Apr 3, 2005 District of Columbia

    Not really helpful for most homebrewers, at least those like me who don't have the equipment to perform cell counts.

    I do a lager-sized starter for my 100% Brett beers. If you are starting with White Labs good to do at least one smaller step first. Brett is slower growing, so giving it a week between steps to complete its growth is a good idea as well. Brett cells are smaller on average than brewer's yeast, so there will be more cells per ml of slurry given equally dense cultures, but the size range between different strains makes the effect of this difficult to estimate.

    I'd rather over-pitch than under-pitch, you can always back off the pitching rate in subsequent batches, especially because Chad has found he needs fewer cells when repitching.
     
    #11 OldSock, Nov 9, 2012
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  12. kjyost

    kjyost Initiate (0) May 4, 2008 Canada (MB)

    Fair enough, but could you not get a decent estimate form http://www.yeastcalc.com using their stepped starter calculator if you know your initial conditions? It looks like "hybrid" is set to 1 million cells/ml/plato
     
    #12 kjyost, Nov 10, 2012
  13. atomeyes

    atomeyes Initiate (0) Jul 13, 2011 Canada (ON)

    so i typically do a 1/2 gallon starter from 2 vials of White Labs. you suggesting that i do a 1/4 gallon starter from 2 vials first and then, after 1 week, pitch that to another 1/4 gallon of starter to get the 1/2 gallon volume?
     
    #13 atomeyes, Nov 11, 2012
  14. OldSock

    OldSock Maven (1,418) Apr 3, 2005 District of Columbia

    That sounds about right. Those vials only have ~2.5 billion cells each (Wyeast have packs have a lot more cells, ~75 billion).

    I honestly don't know how accurate the growth estimates based on brewer's yeast are when applied to Brett.
     
    #14 OldSock, Nov 11, 2012
    kjyost likes this.
  15. yinzer

    yinzer Initiate (0) Nov 24, 2006 Pennsylvania

    There is Chad's NHC presentation that has the growth curve for starters. Are we allowed to post it as a .jpg or is it NHC property?

    If I read it correctly the starter goes from .5 (cell number x 10(8th)/ml) to 6-7 .5 (cell number x 10(8th)/ml), 500 ml starters over 288 hours.
     
    #15 yinzer, Nov 11, 2012
  16. atomeyes

    atomeyes Initiate (0) Jul 13, 2011 Canada (ON)

    you can use calculations, but, in my (limited) opinion, if you go by trial and error and err on the side of caution, you'll be able to build up a viable starter if you look at the 1/2 gallon size and 10-30 days. i've had great luck with brett claussenii when i've given the starter 2 weeks and, i assume, would still have good results if i let that starter ride for another 1-2 weeks.

    better to plan in advance with brett instead of rushing it i.e. no starter or giving the starter 5-7 days. and I'd personally use the same logic for White vs Wyeast.

    now...not sure about East Coast yeast. they claim their Flemish Red (ECY002) can be pitched directly into 5 gallons w/o a starter.
     
    #16 atomeyes, Nov 12, 2012
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