Using sulphuric acid in mash water

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by Seany, Jun 8, 2015.

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  1. Seany

    Seany Zealot (595) Sep 27, 2005 Canada (QC)

    I finally got my water report.
    Ca 124
    Mg 38
    Na 71
    Cl 117
    SO4 57
    HCO3 506
    Ph 7.4
    I would love to not dilute with distilled or RO. But looks like the only real option from some of the online calculators, for pale beers at least, is Sulfuric acid in strike water. Would be like 3.5ml of 98% for 20 litres water. Anyone use Sulfuric or have any other thoughts or ideas? Thanks!
     
  2. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    I would not use sulfuric acid. Lactic or phosphoric are better (safer) options.

    Actually, if my water profile looked like yours, I'd build from distilled/RO. (And I do.)
     
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  3. Seany

    Seany Zealot (595) Sep 27, 2005 Canada (QC)

    Would you not use sulfuric only for safety reasons. I have built from RO, but living 30min drive from anywhere that I can get RO water, takes a decent bit of planning for brewdays. Would love avoid that.
    I am concerned with the amount of lactic required (12ml or so) that I would notice some sourness in the end result?
     
  4. wspscott

    wspscott Pooh-Bah (1,958) May 25, 2006 Kentucky
    Pooh-Bah

    I'm not a water expert at all, but I have used 10ml of lactic in the mash before (5 gallon batch) and not noticed it in the final beer.
     
  5. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    That's really my only reason. Seriously, the stuff can burn holes in you. It can blind you.
     
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  6. Brew_Betty

    Brew_Betty Initiate (0) Jan 5, 2015 Wisconsin

    In addition to the potential serious safety risks, H2SO4 might even taste bad. :grimacing:

    I wouldn't want to find out. Stick with food grade lactic or phosphoric acid.
     
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  7. skivtjerry

    skivtjerry Pooh-Bah (1,865) Mar 10, 2006 Vermont
    Pooh-Bah

    If OP went this way (which I don't recommend - my vote is for phosphoric) he would hopefully purchase diluted acid. Much safer and less likely to overshoot the desired pH reduction. Concentrated sulfuric acid is the only thing I use at work that makes me pull out the full face shield.

    OP's water is already chock-full of dissolved material. I'd dilute it with distilled/RO/rainwater rather than adding yet more ions, even if it does look ok on paper.
     
  8. skivtjerry

    skivtjerry Pooh-Bah (1,865) Mar 10, 2006 Vermont
    Pooh-Bah

    Excess sulfate ion can also have laxative properties.
     
    Irrenarzt likes this.
  9. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,635) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    That the highest bicarbonate level I have seen!

    Professional Brewers do use sulfuric acid to reduce alkalinity and add SO4, but they have better chemicals to play with in general, and better Personal Saftey Equipment. They also have eyewash stations in most and safety showers in the bigger ones.
     
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  10. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    I would not use sulfuric acid outside of a lab environment. I used it routinely for about 10 years while working in soil chemistry labs. It's nasty stuff and deserves a lot of respect in the form of safety precautions.

    I think building from RO is really your best option. Even if you can balance the alkalinity with your sulfuric, you end up with water that necessarily has a lot of ions in it, which means there are styles that the water is not well suited to producing (e.g., Czech pils).
     
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  11. Seany

    Seany Zealot (595) Sep 27, 2005 Canada (QC)

    I have seen 10%, is this fairly safe to work with?

    If I used this, sulfate would be around 400ppm. I don't think that is unheard of for a pale hoppy beer right?

    Pretty new to water chemistry, thanks for your help.
     
  12. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    I don't know if it's unheard of. But it's not common.

    Please don't take this the wrong way, but you seem determined to make bad water work, when the better choice would be to make good water. If I understand correctly, your concern is having to plan your RO water purchases. But assuming you have the room, you could stock up on RO water. It doesn't really have a shelf life if stored in safe containers.
     
  13. CurtFromHershey

    CurtFromHershey Initiate (0) Oct 4, 2012 Minnesota

    May be different in Canada, but in the US you can also find distilled water in most all grocery stores and walmarts for under a buck/gallon. It's more money than RO, but it's very convenient, and you don't have to worry about how well maintained the RO filter is.
     
  14. Seany

    Seany Zealot (595) Sep 27, 2005 Canada (QC)

    Not taken the wrong way at all, I very much appreciate any input.

    Thanks.
     
  15. Seany

    Seany Zealot (595) Sep 27, 2005 Canada (QC)

    I have not looked into distilled water. Will have to check it out. Thanks.
     
  16. telejunkie

    telejunkie Savant (1,107) Sep 14, 2007 Vermont

    for obvious reasons, if you do go ahead with the plan of using sulfuric acid, make sure you have plenty of vinegar on hand just in case.
    I've never seen RO water at local grocery stores like many places have available to them and distilled water in 1 gallon increments gets way to pricey for me...I'm looking at like $30 just for the water for a batch of beer until I invest in an RO system (been looking). So that means using what i've got...and my carbonate level is only like 250-300ppms. Yours are up there with the hardest I've seen. Stouts and hearty porters maybe good to brew with this profile, but pale beers, not so much. 400ppm sulfate would be pretty high, you'd be getting to borderline rotten egg odors i believe once the boil concentrates the levels further. Maybe a 50/50 phosphoric/sulfuric may work for IPAs and other hoppy brews though to knock down the pH.
     
  17. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    Vinegar? The reason is not obvious to me.
     
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  18. skivtjerry

    skivtjerry Pooh-Bah (1,865) Mar 10, 2006 Vermont
    Pooh-Bah

    You meant baking soda?
     
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  19. telejunkie

    telejunkie Savant (1,107) Sep 14, 2007 Vermont

    Ugh...thanks, yes baking soda. Been using lye too much lately I guess...
     
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  20. Seany

    Seany Zealot (595) Sep 27, 2005 Canada (QC)

    Thanks for all the help and input. Guess I will be smart and go back to building from RO.

    Wish I could run a pipe from some of that magical VT water I am so close to....
     
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