Variation in Head Longevity

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by Bevvy, Jun 23, 2017.

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  1. Bevvy

    Bevvy Initiate (119) Jun 23, 2017 Scotland

    I'm enjoying a bottle of Fuller's Golden Pride right now. It's a bit chilly in Glasgow, Scotland, the wood stove is lit and Miles Davis is blowing Kind of Blue.

    Reading reviews of this 8.5%, rich beer some folks talk about the head lasting 5 mins, other saying it dissapears quickly. I've noticed that the longevity of the head on a beer can often vary quite considerably.

    Does anyone know why this is? I wonder if how the glass was washed makes a difference; dishwasher V hand wash in detergent, i.e. how clean the class is or how much "wetting agent" is residual on it. Also, does what you are eating with the beer make a difference. I'm having some salted cashew nuts with mine. Perhaps the oil in the nuts kills the head?

    This might seem a trivial point, but I do enjoy the feeling of drinking a fine beer through a deep froth and if there is a way to maximise this experience I'd like to know. Does anyone have views on this conundrum?
     
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  2. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    That would be my first guess: glass 'cleanliness'. If a glass is washed using detergent/soap it needs to be thoroughly rinsed to remove all detergent/soap residue or else this will mitigate the head of the beer.

    Cheers!
     
  3. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,132) Feb 15, 2010 New York
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I have heard from credible sources that this can be the case as well.
     
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  4. MNAle

    MNAle Initiate (0) Sep 6, 2011 Minnesota

    Yes. I can attest to this. Detergent left on the glass (not visible, but there) will very much affect the head and the lacing.
     
  5. Bevvy

    Bevvy Initiate (119) Jun 23, 2017 Scotland

    I remember as a child in the bath making bubbles with shampoo ( my dad was a salesman for a shampoo company, so it ran like water in our household). When I added some soap into the bath, the bubbles quickly disappeared, you could hear them fizz & pop.. Soap is a kind of fat, I think. Something in the soap made the detergent bubbles burst.

    Makes me wonder if there are two kind of bubbles; soapy ones and detergent ones? I wonder which kind beer bubbles are? ( if indeed beer froth can be called "bubbles")

    The reason I mentioned "wetting agent' is that when develping my own photographic negatives, it was ofetn recommended to add a tiny bit of detergent (washing up liquid) to the final rinse of the 35mm film. This wetting agent seemd to eliminate any streaks or "bubble" type marks on the dried negatives. However, with beer, I am wanting to encourage the froth, bubbles & residue to the maximum.

    From the few comments already made, it sounds like it would be wise to give the (apparantly clean) glass a good rinse & dry before pouring the beer?

    What about lead crystal glass V ordinary glass? Maybe the microscopic surface of one is better for froth?

    I realise this may sound a bit pedantic but I'd like to be able to have more consistant experiences of my beer, or at least to understand what is going on. (having said that, the variation is all part of the fun & mystery. Why a beer can blow my mind on one particular day and be only passable on another. Who knows?)
     
  6. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    The other option if you are not a germophobe is to just rinse your beer glasses thoroughly after use with water. There really is no absolute need to utilize soap/detergent to 'clean' your glasses.

    I have some very tall Pilsner glasses that I do not feel comfortable putting into my dishwasher (I broke one once by being a bit too rough placing it in). After that break I simply just rinse my pilsner glasses after use and place them upside down in a rack to drip dry. Those glasses yield a beautiful head and gorgeous Belgian Lace as the beer is consumed.

    Cheers!

    P.S. I do wash my non-Pilsner beer glasses in the dishwasher but the dishwasher detergent I use includes a rinse aid so those glasses also yield big and sustaining heads.
     
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  7. MNAle

    MNAle Initiate (0) Sep 6, 2011 Minnesota

    You're going to fit in nicely around here! :slight_smile:
     
  8. AZBeerDude72

    AZBeerDude72 Initiate (0) Jun 10, 2016 Arizona

    I agree with that totally, I have some tall glasses I just cannot clean with my hands and the dishwasher will destroy them. I just drip some soap into them and run hot water over the glass and towel dry, smells good and no issues. I actually started the same process with most of my beer glasses and zero issue, sometimes I think we over wash on glasses.
     
  9. NeroFiddled

    NeroFiddled Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,276) Jul 8, 2002 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Firstly, eating anything oily while drinking will kill the head.

    Following that, when talking about a "beer-clean" glass, you should never use soap, and always immediately rinse it with hot water after using it, running your fingers around the lip to remove anything you might have gotten on there. Then, periodically fill it with an inch or so of salt and warm water and spread it around, getting the salt mixture over all of the inside and the outside lip. Second to that is using an acid like distilled white vinegar which helps break up any bio-film that might have developed. I usually do that every 8 weeks or so. Finally, if your glass shows any bubbles stuck to the bottom or the sides that means it's not clean, that there's something on there acting as a nucleation point for the carbonation to stick to, and you need to clean it again. In that case, a run through the dishwasher would probably be good followed by the acid and salt.
     
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  10. Harrison8

    Harrison8 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,285) Dec 6, 2015 Missouri
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    As you pour the beer into the rinsed pilsner glasses, do you get those bubbles that hold on the glass in little clumps?

    I have found that one hand wash cycle with my glasses will have the beer bubble on the glass, and reduce head/lacing. Two washes (back to back) in hot water yields inhibited head retention and lacing. I haven't had good experience with just rinsing out my glasses, but perhaps I need to let them air-dry longer. I would like to find a dishwasher detergent that I'm pleased with for my beer glasses. What product do you use?
     
  11. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    To be honest I really have never looked. I have an undersink water filter and my process is to just place my Pilsner glass under the filter's faucet and let it run until the glass is overflowing and I place the glass upside down in a rack to dry. I do not expect the glass to be 100% pristine; it is clean to the eye and the next time I use it the beer has a big. long lasting head.

    In short: this process 'works' for me.

    Maybe I should periodically do a more thorough cleaning (e.g., using dish detergent) but frankly that is not going to happen since I am personally satisfied with the status quo.

    Needless to say I am not a Germophobe. When I drop food on the floor the 5 second rule is always in effect!!:rolling_eyes:

    Cheers!
     
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  12. Harrison8

    Harrison8 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,285) Dec 6, 2015 Missouri
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    I am just curious if the beer glass accumulates bubbles as you pour a beer into it.

    I like your method. I am far from a germophobe, haha. I just wasn't able to get clean looking glass once I poured beer into a rinsed glass vs. a washed one. I never wash out my coffee mug either. I do rinse it with some water, and the occasion fill of hot water, but I haven't had any problems not washing mine.
     
  13. MNAle

    MNAle Initiate (0) Sep 6, 2011 Minnesota

    I will run mine through a short cycle in the dishwasher without any detergent (i.e. a hot water wash), and then every few times, I will add a small amount (much less than recommended) of dish washer detergent.

    BTW, I have found old, well-used household glasses eventually get a haze, like a fine etching sort of, that is permanent. I place the blame on dish washing detergent.

    Anyone else see anything like that?
     
  14. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I had some glasses that had the appearance of having a permanent haze; this happened when I used 'basic' Cascade as the dishwasher detergent. I switched to Cascade 10X and after a few times of washing the glasses changed from hazy to crystal clear.

    It is my understanding that this hazy/cloudy appearance is due to mineral deposits from tap (or well) water. Mostly calcium?

    I did a quick websearch and according to the below link a trick to get rid of this haze is to clean the glass with toothpaste.

    http://lifehacker.com/236413/how-to-clean-cloudy-drinking-glasses

    Cheers!
     
  15. woodchipper

    woodchipper Grand Pooh-Bah (3,735) Oct 25, 2005 Connecticut
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I have had a lot of luck rinsing my glasses with just water. The secret is to do it immediately, while the beer is still wet everywhere it contacted. Semi-violent swirling does everything it needs to on the inside. I hand rub/was the outside if I was eating sloppy hand food while drinking.
    I never need the dishwasher for my beer glasses unless I let the vessel linger too long before I get to it.
    I always seem to get great head (on my beer anyway).
     
  16. Squire

    Squire Grand Pooh-Bah (4,385) Jul 16, 2015 Mississippi
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    My guess would be the glass. Hand washing mine seems to do the trick.
     
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  17. zstef99

    zstef99 Initiate (0) Dec 25, 2008 New York

    I use a dedicated beer glass sponge with dye/scent free dish liquid. Then I rinse very thoroughly with hot water. I find that my dishwasher leaves a bit of residue so I don't like to use it for my beer glasses, and if you use the same sponge you use to clean greasy dishes, you'll just be introducing a small amount of that grease to the glass.
     
  18. HorseheadsHophead

    HorseheadsHophead Grand Pooh-Bah (3,732) Sep 15, 2014 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Dude, I feel your pain! I went through a similar situation recently with Founders PC Pils. I always hand wash my glasses with unscented dish soap, rinse thoroughly, and air dry, but I still could not get any head retention! This drove me crazy for over a week. I tried everything I could, followed every procedure I could think of it, and I still couldn't get any head retention. The head was always really foamy and soapy and quickly fizzed away. I was losing my mind. Then I finally found out thanks to @StoutElk_92 that PC Pils is brewed with corn, and since corn is a low-protein adjunct that fights head retention (as in your typical adjunct lager) the poor head retention was normal. I'm probably OCD, (or a number of other mental issues) but that was source of non-stop frustration for me.
     
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  19. mudbug

    mudbug Pooh-Bah (1,762) Mar 27, 2009 Oregon
    Pooh-Bah

    The life of the head is inversely proportionate to the thirst of the drinker. Geez don't they teach science over there?
     
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  20. marquis

    marquis Pooh-Bah (2,313) Nov 20, 2005 England
    Pooh-Bah

    As the finest pint of Bass I ever drank had no head and was as limpid as a mountain lake I do feel that the head of a pint is a little overrated, But I drink in pubs 95% of the time where glasses are machine washed by law. A well kept and poured pint will keep its head to the bottom of the glass even though cask beer has no extra carbonation.
    [​IMG] It is a thick and creamy head rather than a collection of large bubbles.
    [​IMG]
    None of these glasses was washed by hand or without soap.
     
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