Very long boil, Scottish ale

When I did the Wee Heavy I collected 3qt of the first runnings at the end of the mash. I then boiled it while boiling the rest of the wort for 90 min. That was enough time to boil the first runnings down to a thickened syrup, and I added it back into the pot with 10 min left in the boil.

IMHO, 2.5 gallons is more than you need to collect for a 5 gallon batch.

When boiling the first runnings you need to make sure that you don't boil it down so much that you end up scorching it. It can happen quite easily if you aren't watching it.

 

Iodine test for the 30 min collection to see if starches converted. 2.5 gal would probably take at least an hour or more to boil down to 50% or denser. Boil down won't effect OG unless you don't collect full volume. If you collect full volume, your tail runnings will be making up for that ~1 gal boil down, since you will be collecting more low gravity volume to replace the lost boil down volume.

It's all relative, there is only so much potential yield from a certain grist. Depending factor is final post boil volume.

 

I'm not actually sure that this accomplishes a lot and would be curious to hear what others have to say about extended boils, boiling a syrup on the side, or possibly using a high percentage of melanoidin malt.

 

I think getting a good Scotch ale isn't so much about boil length, but other factors in the process... low hop rates, yeast strain that is a low attenuator, fermentation & conditioning process, high mash temps, water, etc.

 

I make about three or four beers in this manner, it adds a complexity of caramel flavors, those achieved when using Crystal malts, the grist on most of mine are totally void of crystal malts. I also over sparge and boil the wort for an extended time to allow for carmelization of the wort in the kettle, at least 90 min, but usually closer to 2.5 hours.Makes for a real good easy drinking beer, go for your plan, i'll be one of your best. However extend your mash to 60 minutes to get complete conversion.
ThomP

 

I did it in my scotch ale and found no really assistance to the end product. Didn't have the other scotch ale to compare too, but the extra work.. not really worth it.

Toss in some melanoiden malt and leave it alone unless you need to sparge more to get better efficiency. 90 minutes should be plenty to boil, IMO.

But if you've never done it, it's worth a shot to see what you think, so I think your plan is probably sound. 30 min should get you good conversion with some standard well modified malts.

 

I know this was in the context of a Scottish Ale, and the OP's mash temp makes me think he's looking for a big body, but just a general sidebar comment...

I think the iodine test is of pretty limited value, unless you're trying for the least fermentable wort possible, because the test simply indicates that there are no starches present, but doesn't tell you anything about the mix of sugars (simple/complex) and unfermentable dextrins that is still evolving. That's why I think it's important to learn (and predict) wort fermentability given your process and variables like mash time/temp for a given grain bill.

 

I've tried this a few times and IMO boiling 2.5 gallons down to 1 isn't really a "VERY long boil"...I've had to boil 3 gallons of first runnings down to less than a quart to get any noticeable effect out of this, I then added that quart to enough second runnings to get up to my pre boil volume and boiled for an additional 3 hours. The over all effect on the beer was nice but subtle.

Cue marquis to bust your balls about "Scottish ale" and long boils.

 

On cue. yes, just another of those dreadful myths about Scottish brewing.There are no records at all of long boils , in fact they tended to be shorter than average.Thankfully Ron (aka patto1ro) has written a well researched book on the subject.
http://www.lulu.com/shop/ronald-pattinson/scotland/paperback/product-20455803.html
A good thing because Scottish brewing has been shamefully misrepresented.Worst of all by generally "respected beer writers" , just look at the Oxford Companion to see this.

 

Scorching can start to happen when you reach a thickness of, say, maple syrup...and possibly before depending on the amount of heat your're using. As to when you would notice it physically, it would probably be a little late at that point. I would just watch it really carefully, and don't hesitate to be a little conservative with your reduction.

 

I saw this thread and KNEW marquis was gonna come in here shortly enough. Almost paged him.

 

I don't have any problem with brewers using a long boil , homebrewing is all about suiting yourself after all. Here's a recipe for a nice Scotch Ale.105 IBU , 1.75 hour boil , straight from the record books at Younger's;

http://barclayperkins.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/lets-brew-wednesday-1868-william.html

 

Here's the recipe I've got for Traquair House Ale, fwiw

99% MO
1% roast barley
OG 1.070
FG 1.015
ABV 7.2%

Mash@148F

2 hour boil

hops -
2.5g/l EKG bittering
1.5g/l EKG late addition

Edinburgh ale yeast

 

Caramelizing or scorching is not going to occur until you boil nearly ALL of the water out of the solution, which is not going to happen by boiling 2.5 or 2 gallons down to 1 gallon, not even close. You'll definitely get some darkening from the wort concentrating and from melanoidin compounds forming, but you're not going to get caramelization or scorching unless you go much farther than that.

As I said above, I've boiled 3 gallons of 1st runnings down to less than a quart without any scorching issues, I stopped when it turned a deep mahogany color and I started to get toffee like aromas coming off it. I was scared at this point that I was scorching it, but I've done it a few times and have never had an issue. This was always for a 5 gallon batch and the beers were always good but the effect from boiling down the 1st runnings was very subtle, so I suspect that boiling 2 gallons down to 1 gallon for a batch thats 9 gallons total is going to yield a very very subtle effect in the final product.

 

You can always add water back in if it gets too thick. You won't though. Get a rubber scraper and get all the good stuff out.

 

Just ladle some of the wort out of the kettle into the boil-down pot to swish out all of the sugary goodness. I have followed the Traquair homebrew recipe a couple of times every year, as it makes a tasty beer that always disappears fast at parties.