Vienna Lagers

I've been enjoying Smuttynose Pinniped Special a lot. Very tasty and drinkable.

 

Chris.

Thanks for posting that. It was an interesting read.

I took note in the comments section that Ron (@patto1ro) made mention of:

“The attenuation of 19th-century Lagers is almost always poor by today’s standards. Most are below 70% apparent.”

I have discussed this situation with Patrik (@Crusader) in the past. I wonder why this was the case. Maybe the malt was not as modified as today’s malt and this resulted in more unfermentables in the wort? @jesskidden, do you know why lagers of the 1800’s had such high final gravities?

As JK already posted there is a history of producing Vienna (Wiener) beers in America prior to prohibition. He provided information concerning the Wiener beers produced by Coors and Pearl. Below is information about the Wiener beer produced by Blatz Brewing. I suspect that the Alcohol level mentioned of 3.5% is ABW which translates to 4.4% ABV.

“DESCRIPTION

An advertisement for Blatz Wiener beer featuring two well-dressed men and two women seated at a restaurant table drinking Blatz Beer. There is a potted plant in the foreground. Most of the advertisement is copy which reads: "Blatz Wiener Beer Milwaukee, Good Beer is the beverage of the hour and is recognized by intelligent classes, the world over, for its tonic and nourishing qualities — hop bitters and malt are a tonic and food in themselves. The foamy, amber beverage no longer suggests the China pipe and wooden shoes. Enlightened and thinking ones do not, in this generation, look askance at good beer, for it is barely 3 1/2 percent alcoholic, not enough to class it in that respect, with the mildest medicinal wines — or even cider. Blatz Wiener-- the good old beverage — brewed from honest components and matured in cellars that are cool and dry — has won a dignified place in the American home. It stands for all that's good and pure in brewing. Is pre-eminently the beer of honest and undeviating quality. That's why physicians recommend it to their most delicate patients. That's why you should have Blatz Wiener available in your own home. Always the same good old Blatz, Val. Blatz Brewing Co. Milwaukee, Visitors in our city invited to inspect the plant".



https://www.wisconsinhistory.org/Records/Image/IM94590

 

Just curious - are there any Austrian Vienna lagers that make it out of the country?

In my lone trip to Austria (Salzburg, not Vienna) I only encountered Maerzen, hell, weiss, pils, and "gold" beers.

 

I always figured that Steigl Gold was a Vienna, although it's been many years since I've even seen one.

 

That's one of the only Austrian beers I get to drink regularly and it's actually one I really dig. I interpreted it to be a Maerzen, but I honestly don't really know. "Gold" as a descriptor seems to run the gambit in Germany, so that's my only reference point.

 

Chris, in the above linked blog there is mention of: “Ottakringer’s “Wiener Original”, there is even a mainstream supermarket beer of that old style (for the record, it’s one of my favourite local beers whenever I’m back in Austria).”

That beer is imported to Canada:

http://www.thebeerstore.ca/beers/ottakringer-wienerorigin

Maybe some importer brings this beer into the US?

Cheers!

 

Hmm, that is an intriguing thought. It has been a couple of years since I drank a Stiegl Goldbrau but I suspect the golden color had me thinking it as more like a Helles?

Below is how this beer is described on the Stiegl website:

“Stiegl-Goldbräu

"Salzburg's liquid gold."

Stiegl-Goldbräu is a traditional Salzburg beer specialty with 12° Plato and a characteristic golden-yellow color. A full-bodied beer with a gentle bitterness brewed using indigenous ingredients. Wonderfully refreshing and very agreeable.

Alcohol content: 5,00% vol

Gravity in °Plato: 12,00°

Ingredients: Barley malt, hops, water

Type of beer: Full beer

Tips for drinking beer: Ideal serving temperature 6 - 8°C (43°-46° F)

Fermentation: untergärig”

I find it interesting that they detail “full beer” as the beer type.



Stiegl is imported by SH Brands and on their website:

“stiegl

GOLDBRRÄU

Stiegl Goldbräu boasts an unrivaled, well rounded, balanced and wonderfully thirst-quenching flavor. Mildly hopped with a typical refreshing beer bouquet, golden color, a magnificent fine head and pleasant aftertaste, Stiegl Goldbräu is the enjoyment of beer at the highest level.

ABV: 5% | STYLE: Golden Lager”

So, SH Brands decided to just call this beer a Golden Lager.



I suppose the ‘confusion’ here could be the color aspect? Folks today have an expectation that a Vienna Lager be amber in color so…

Cheers!

 

I have not yet left this mortal coil... I have however, packed my bags and moved to Minnesota. I now work with Surly Brewing Co. Not a bad gig at all!

 

Here's a comment about the status of "Vienna Beer" in Vienna, "snipped" from a report published in a US brewing industry periodical in 1933.(coincidentally the year of Repeal).

 

Iirc, the color is on the border between gold and amber, but more importantly the flavor profile, especially the finish, has that tell tale biscuity Vienna malt quality to it- so that's what I'd use to categorize it.

 

It has been a couple years but from my memory I recall more of a bready malt flavor vs. biscuit. If I were to brew a clone of Stiegl Goldbrau I would use a significant portion of Continental Pilsner Malt in the grain bill.

Just my personal thoughts based upon a drinking experience of a couple of years ago.

Cheers!

P.S. FWIW, this beer is classified as a Munich Helles by BA.

 

Not my favorite style but don't mind some Negra Modelo from time to time (esp with Mexican food). Between that and SA don't see any other regulars here - think my fellow Californians are busy chasing IPAs.

 

The amber beers from Mexico are an interesting ‘variant’ of the Vienna Lager beer style since they are Adjunct Lagers.

Below is from a BYO article:

“Corn Adjunct

Most Mexican Vienna lagers contain some corn in their formulation. As a homebrewer, you could add up to 20% corn — in the form of grits, flaked maize or brewers corn syrup — to your Vienna lager. You’ll need to perform a cereal mash if you use grits, but flaked maize can be stirred right into the mash and brewers syrup can be added in the boil. Adding this adjunct will lighten the color and body of the beer compared to an all-malt beer.”

https://byo.com/article/vienna-lager-in-exile/

I enjoy drinking Negra Modelo from time to time but I personally view this beer as being an American Amber Adjunct Lager (AAAL) vs. a Vienna Lager.

Cheers!

 

I had this Hirter Herbstcult Austrian beer last week in Chicagoland.

https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/3043/332250/?ba=Tucquan#review

It's was described as an Unfiltered Keller Marzen, but from how it looked and tasted, it seems to have similarities to Austrian Vienna Lagers described in this thread. I enjoyed it.

 

Oh, it's not a prominent quality, but it was there and came out the more you drank. If there's a sliding scale, I could see it being on the 'low' end.

 

It is also possible I had an 'older' bottle of Stiegl Goldbrau. It has been too long ago (a couple of years) and I have no recollection of how old was the beer drank (and even if the beer was dated).

Cheers!

 

Have you tried the Hirter 1270er? That beer is listed as being a Vienna Lager:

https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/3043/32890/

@Domingo

Cheers!

Edit: Hirter 1270er won the Gold medal for the Red/Amber Lager category at the European Beer Star Awards beer competition.

 

@jesskidden Did US brewers who made Vienna-style beers in Pre- and Post-Pro times like you discussed above use corn adjuncts? Or were they typically all malt? Just wondering, because if it's the former, then Mexican Vienna lagers, like Negro Modelo, might be similar to those extinct US vienna-style beers.

 

Definitely the best bet usually at most Mexican restaurants. I think it's a solid brew.