Vienna Lagers

I have read a few times that some of the big brewers use roasted malts to adjust color up. The recent one I read (can’t remember where) stayed tha Miller does this for Lite, otherwise the beer would be “ghostly pale” in the articles words.

 

VL are some of my favorites and oddly enough I have never had Neshaminy Creek Churchville Lager because I can never find a date on the can (the 6 packs have the sticker, though) so I usually pass on any singles I come across. However, this thread has me thirsty for a good VL so I will grab a sixer and give it a go.

 

The Adirondack Lager bottle is from 2011, so they were using Cascade at least up until then. The Lager bottle is from 2005.

 

It's another name for Helles, basically.

 

As per Conrad Seidl the end of WW2 brought about governmental price controls in Austria but due to bargaining between the government and the brewers association they reached an agreement about how weak the beer could be brewed and still be sold as Märzen, that lower limit was placed at 12% plato, which remained until Austria entered the EU in 1995 and the lower limit was changed to 11% plato. It seems Austria has had regulations pertaining to the labeling of beer, something called a biercodex, but so far I have been unable to find an historical overview of the legislation or the changes to it.

Märzen had during the mid to late 1800s become a mark of quality in the Austrian beer market since the taxation (and thus the pricing) was based on the original gravity of the beer, so it makes sense that the brewers would continue using it as a designation indicating a premium product, even as the style became less distinctive than it had been.

Stiegl on their website make a point about adhering to the 12% plato strenght of their Goldbräu brand:

"With the exception of times of crisis during the Second World War, the ‘Stiegl-Goldbräu’ has always been brewed using 12° of original wort since its product launch in 1912."

"According to European regulations Märzen beer can also be brewed with less than 12° of wort. The majority of Austrian breweries has lowered the content of wort, which comes at the expense of quality."

""After the end of the war, in September 1949, it was again permitted to brew Märzen beer with 12° of original wort and the people of Salzburg celebrated this with a big ’Peace-beer-party’."

I wonder if Stiegl Goldbräu was always sold as a Märzen or if they started selling it as a lagerbier in 1912, 12% seems low for an Austrian Märzenbier of 1912, and more in line with an Austrian lagerbier but I don't really know what happened with the Austrian beer market after the turn of the century.

 

Patrik, below is what I posted previously (post #27):

"Below is how this beer is described on the Stiegl website:

“Stiegl-Goldbräu

"Salzburg's liquid gold."

Stiegl-Goldbräu is a traditional Salzburg beer specialty with 12° Plato and a characteristic golden-yellow color. A full-bodied beer with a gentle bitterness brewed using indigenous ingredients. Wonderfully refreshing and very agreeable.

Alcohol content: 5,00% vol

Gravity in °Plato: 12,00°

Ingredients: Barley malt, hops, water

Type of beer: Full beer

Tips for drinking beer: Ideal serving temperature 6 - 8°C (43°-46° F)

Fermentation: untergärig”

I find it interesting that they detail “full beer” as the beer type."

Do you know what the terminology of "Full beer" means to Austrians?

Cheers!

 

Vollbier,
a now antiquated German federal beer tax category, which was originally invented by revenue bureaucrats. The first Germany-wide beer tax law dates from 1906, and soon the Kaiser’s imperial tax authorities made a distinction between vollbier and other classes of beer for tax purposes. These found their modern codifications, forming the basis of the law that lasted until the 1990s, in the beer tax laws promulgated by **** Germany in 1939. The category was abolished by legislation effective January 1, 1993. Literally, the term “vollbier” meant “full beer” or “entire beer” and it referred to all beers with an original wort gravity, in the brewhouse, at the end of the kettle boil—measured in degrees Plato—of 11°P to 14°P.

Strangely, this overarching category covered about 99% of all beers made in Germany at the time, whereas the remaining 1% of brews were covered by three additional categories: einfachbier (literally “simple beer”) of an original gravity of 2°P to 5.5°P and 0.1% market share, in the early 1990s; schankbier (literally “tap beer”) of an original gravity of 7°P to 8°P and 0.2% market share; and starkbier (literally “strong beer”) of an original gravity of more than 16°P and 0.7% market share. Note that there are gaps in this tax classification, which meant that, prior to 1993, German brewers could not legally make beers based on wort gravities of 5.6°P to 6.9°P, 8.1°P to 10.9°P, or 14.1°P to 15.9°P!

As part of the progressive harmonization of all laws within the European Union, this odd German beer tax scheme was replaced in 1993 by a new, continuous system in which every degree Plato of original gravity constitutes a separate tax category. As of early 2011, therefore, brewers pay slightly less than 0.8 Euro per degree Plato per hectoliter. This rate applies to breweries with an annual volume of 200,000 hl or more. This tax rate is graduated downward for smaller breweries. The lowest tax rate of a little more than one-half of the regular tax applies to breweries with 5,000 hl or less annual volume. The term “vollbier” is now simply used to mean “regular beer,” distinguishing it from beers that are particularly light or strong in alcohol.

Harms, Diedrich. Durchschnittswerte bei Bieranalysen. Brauerei-Forum 7 (2009): 15.

Conrad Seidl

 

Full beer is a direct translation of vollbier. Vollbier is used in Austria today to designate a beer of higher than 11% plato but less than 16% plato, with beers above 16% being designated starkbier (strong beer), and those below designated as schankbier. How these categories have changed and when they were introduced I couldn't say, but based on the excerpt from Stiegl it seems like the lower limit for vollbier was moved downward from 12% to 11% when Austria entered the EU, which I'm guessing was done to harmonize the legislation with that of Germany where 11% was already the lower limit for vollbier and had been since at least the 1930s (in 1919 the German vollbier class was 8-13%, starting in 1922 it was 9-13% and by 1936 it was 11-14%, but I do not know when the shift was made between the 1922 legislation and that which was in place in 1936 and onward).

 

Do you understand the distinction of Vollbier and Märzen as categories in Germany?

My understanding is that Vollbier is a German beer tax category designating a wort which is between 11 and 14%.

In a past thread Ron (@patto1ro) posted: “…according to Bavarian law, Märzen had to be between 13.5 and 14º Plato.”

It would appear that there is some overlap between Vollbier and Märzen above. Is this a Germany vs. Bavaria thing?

Cheers!

 

Since the introducion of original gravity based taxation in 1919 up until the early 1990s the vollbier designation decided which tax was to be paid on a beer belonging to that gravity band. Since the early 1990s Germany instead adopted the EU system (one of two allowed afaik) where instead of having gravity bands which are taxed a certain amount they tax the beer per hectoliter and per degree plato. So the vollbier class does not serve a purpose from a tax perspective any more. It is my understanding that there are regulations concerning labeling for terms such as vollbier or starkbier and how they can be used, but I have not read anything specific about the legislation or actual regulations so I couldn't say anything about it.

 

There are tax categories and rules about specific names, if I remember correctly. It's been a while since I looked at this properly.

 

Snake River Lager, now named Jenny Lake Lager, is a fine example of the style.

 

I loved this beer btw, will be drinking it more often. Brooklyn Lager is up there for me too, though, and don't sleep on that classic.

A part of me wishes beers like this became all the rage vs IPAs.

 

Thanks for the review. Called a place that I frequent and the worker said they have it, so that will be my next purchase.

 

If it hasn't been mentioned yet, I quite like Jack's Abby Saxony Lager. They're just in-season, and I had one with some homemade fajitas, which fit quite well with it. It was very tasty, and I enjoyed it quite a bit. I will definitely be getting more when this six pack runs out.

I also had a Von Trapp Vienna, but I think it is a rather unusual one for the style. It’s good and I’m glad it’s available all the time, but I find it perhaps too hoppy and not that sweet to match up with others of the style. What does everybody else think?

 

I found a few city of Vienna year books which contained an interesting table showing the beer pricing for different classes of beer.

The first yearbook is from 1889

The "extract content in saccharometrical degrees" (i.e degrees Balling, the basis of taxation in Austria Hungary at the time) for the abzug is given as 10, the lager and märzen classes are combined at 13-15 degrees, Bock at 16-18.

Fast forward to 1894 and we see the same classes only the abzug is given as 10-11 degrees.


Next year something starts to happen, the Wiener abzug class as given as 10-11½, the lager and Märzen/Export class has been split up with lager at 12-13 and Märzen/Export at 13-14½.

A few years pass and in the 1899 year book it still looks the same.


The following year another change can be seen, the Märzen/Export class is now 13-14 degrees instead of 13-14½.

Fast forward to 1910 and the classes still look the same.

So it looks like there was downward pressure on the original gravity of the lagerbier and märzenbier classes around the turn of the century, at least in the Vienna area, and as can be seen from the table below, already posted in this thread, there was a decline in the production of worts between 12-16% between the year 1874 and 1881.

 

Well, they were in the 1980s - with numerous "amber" beers like New Amsterdam Amber Beer, Samuel Adams Boston Lager, Brooklyn Lager, Yuengling Traditional Amber Lager, etc., all being released. There were a number of contract-brewed beers that were very similar to SABL coming out of their contractor, Pittsburgh Brewing Co, that Jim Koch accused them of ripping off the recipe of his Boston Lager.
"“…two other of the top-finishing beers in the Denver competition (GABF) are Samuel Adams clones. I found out late that there is no exclusivity in the beer business. A couple of other guys went to the same (Pennsylvania) brewer, and asked them to make a beer just like Samuel Adams!” --- Jim Koch, July, 1987
He's likely referring to beers like Dock Street Amber Ale, Olde Heurich Amber Ale, Penn Pilsner or even the long-forgotten Original XIII Colony (GA), with many more ambers coming out of F X Matt and Hibernia (ex-Walter) in WI.

 

Proof of your first claim about being “all the rage” is evident in that Koch quote... since there was a time when Boston Lager was awarded “best beer in America” at GABF. You know that of course, but I’m just pointing out to others that your quote has even greater relevance. If that happened today, I think people here would react with claims of bribery. (No offense to Boston Lager)

 

Well, those claims existed back then, too (made with offense aimed towards Boston Lager's brewer).

Supposedly, after complaints, the AHA banned some promotional give-aways like "baseball caps" the next year - so Koch gave out Samuel Adams painters' hats, instead.

More on BBC and Koch (edit from a Village Voice piece) at those late 80s GABF along with fellow brewers reactions