Washington privatization, a year later.

Discussion in 'Northwest' started by zekeman17, Mar 28, 2013.

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  1. zekeman17

    zekeman17 Pooh-Bah (2,082) Feb 14, 2010 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    As Pennsylvania begins to take action towards privatization of the state system, just wondering how it is working out in Washington. Price? Availability? Convenience? Is everything as rosy as they would have us believe, or are there difficulties to be on the lookout for?
    Did it affect beer as much as wine and liquor?
    Thanks.
     
  2. NWer

    NWer Pooh-Bah (2,145) Mar 10, 2009 Washington
    Pooh-Bah

    Totally superficial anecdotal observation:

    No affect on beer and wine. They were not under the umbrella of the State monopoly.

    Resulted in general price increase for liquor because lost revenue by already strapped State had to be made up with taxes and there was now a new level of retail price markup required by the private retailers.

    People rushed to buy State run liquor stores thinking they were buying a cash-cow and failed to do their due diligence. All of a sudden finding out they were competing with Costco, Walgreens, the neighborhood Albertsons. Going out of business sale signs pervasive.

    Invasion of big-box liquor stores from California.

    Someone more knowledgeable can feel free to rip apart my observations since I know nothing substantive but my opinion from the get-go was taking Washington State out of the liquor business was unnecessary.
     
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  3. Colloby

    Colloby Initiate (0) Sep 19, 2009 Arizona

    I agree with the comments by NWer. Prices in the newly private stores were way higher than expected, but I rarely buy liquor so it had no real impact for me. Now those private stores are going bust - the two that I know of in Vancouver are holding closing down sales right now. And BevMo opens just up the street from me next week. Can't wait to see the range of beer that they will stock!
     
  4. zekeman17

    zekeman17 Pooh-Bah (2,082) Feb 14, 2010 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Just so I know how to compare, where and how is beer available to you?
    Distributors for cases and supermarkets/retail outlets for 6ers? Take out available at bars?
     
  5. NWer

    NWer Pooh-Bah (2,145) Mar 10, 2009 Washington
    Pooh-Bah

    Beer and wine was always very available in grocery stores, drug stores, specialty beer and wine stores, to go from bars in any quantity. Growlers also from bars and beer stores. Even some grocery stores getting in the act with growler sales. Can't think of any significant constraint to sales for beer and wine now or in the last several years.
     
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  6. BuckeyeOne

    BuckeyeOne Initiate (0) Mar 9, 2008 Washington

    Unlike the craziness of PA, we aren't forced to buy cases --- EVER.
     
    bifrost17 likes this.
  7. distantmantra

    distantmantra Pooh-Bah (2,954) May 23, 2011 Washington
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Russian River also cited the new privitization laws as a reason for pulling out of Washington.
     
  8. Mages64

    Mages64 Initiate (0) Sep 7, 2009 Washington

    The biggest upside I can see is the explosion of growlers.
    Wine world
    Clear view wine & spirits
    Bevmos
    Total wine
    Plateau spirits sammamish
    Whistle stop
    Downtown spirits
    And a ton more applying for their license to sell growlers! This is the future of craft beer and it's a great to be a part of:slight_smile: there is no money in liquor so owners are switching to growlers.
     
    checktherhyme likes this.
  9. BuckeyeOne

    BuckeyeOne Initiate (0) Mar 9, 2008 Washington

    I'm not sure this is true. I think it was old laws/rules that they cited.
     
  10. NWer

    NWer Pooh-Bah (2,145) Mar 10, 2009 Washington
    Pooh-Bah

    Is there a correlation between getting Washington out of the liquor business and growler sales or is the timing merely coincidental? I don't see the relationship.
     
  11. zekeman17

    zekeman17 Pooh-Bah (2,082) Feb 14, 2010 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Yeah, in PA we are still living in the dark ages, although access to beer has improved greatly in the last couple of years. A few supermarkets sell singles and 6ers, and beer stores have popped up as well. One thing we do seem to have is access to a lot of different breweries who distribute to PA (including Russian River).

    People around here are using Washington as an example, because you've just made the change, but everybody uses the information that supports their opinion.

    I'm trying to decide if it makes more sense to modernize a flawed system or scrap it and sell it to the private sector.
    And how that will affect price, availability, convenience as well as what makes more sense financially for the state.

    Thanks for your input.
     
  12. Mages64

    Mages64 Initiate (0) Sep 7, 2009 Washington

    Up until recently only beer joints sold growlers. Once the privatization happened, liquor stores were now allowed to sell growlers. It makes for great options for cheap growlers.
     
  13. HuskyinPDX

    HuskyinPDX Initiate (0) Jan 23, 2011 Washington

    NWer pretty much nailed it. You walk into a Costco and see a bottle at a great price, so the state has like a 20% tax and a bottle surcharge. They are going to get theirs one way or another. So, prices are the same or more than they were before. Also, when it was state run you could go online and search for a specific product. This is no longer so. I don't buy much hard liquor do it hasn't really affected me. To date I think liquor was cheaper and easier to find when it was state run.

    I do love our growler laws, however.
     
  14. Orca

    Orca Grand Pooh-Bah (4,710) Sep 18, 2010 Washington
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Maybe not a direct effect, but one possible side effect on beer of having BevMo and other big private liquor/beer/wine stores enter the market (which is a direct result of privatization of liquor) is increased competition among local beer purveyors. Until last year the local bottle shops had the market to themselves, shared of course with grocery stores. But now they have to worry about these larger stores, with usually very competitive prices. The really established bottle shops like Bottleworks don't have much to worry about because they carry lots of beers that Bevmo et al. don't. But shops with higher markups might want to think about cutting their margins or they could fold in the next couple years.

    Otherwise I agree w/ NWer's (and others') analysis.
     
    woemad likes this.
  15. slinkie

    slinkie Initiate (0) Mar 4, 2011 Washington

    I miss BYOBs.

    Also, I paid $43 in tax on my bottle of Pappy 15.
     
  16. Prufrockstar

    Prufrockstar Initiate (0) Jan 15, 2013 Washington

    Don't buy tons of liquor, and never minded going to the state stores, but from my perspective all I see now is I can buy liquor in more places and it's a lot more expensive than the nominal shelf price might lead you to believe (and in a way that it isn't easy to quickly calculate how much a bottle is going to cost you).

    Fun fact: when out of state, I can now buy a single 750 ml bottle of St. Germain for my wife, pay the checked luggage fee, and still come out ahead of buying the same bottle here.
     
  17. mchen

    mchen Initiate (0) Dec 13, 2010 Washington

    I agree with the statements on beer. However liquor costs have gone up significantly for the most part. Selection has not really improved in my opinion we had some really great liquor stores and they were able to pull in lots of specialty liquor items.

    You can find some deals which put the price 2-5% lower than OR (which is State run). But most liquor is significantly more expensive especially imported liquor and whiskey. Here are some sample price comparisons below (this is after a year of price stabilization prices sky rocketed after the law). Also keep in mind Total Wine has the most competitive prices for the most part in WA (we have 3 stores in the state) and other stores have higher prices even on sale.

    In addition there is no longer any price control so specialty items like Pappy will get marked over 20% (WA had a standard 20% mark up). I purchased 3 bottles of Pappy 15 for $75 including tax and a 2 bottles of Pappy 20 for $120 including tax right before the privatization. The state stores made sure to allocate the bottles for personal use sales and the likely hood of you getting a bottle was much higher since it depended on your dedication and luck. You can't find Pappy at these kind of prices anywhere these days.

    Anyways hope this helps, I think privatization is a good thing if there are not built in taxes. The way WA structured it we now pay more for liquor with marginal gains in selection, most box stores don't have a lot of selection anyways (Grocery, Mini Liquor Stores and Costco). However if you drink from the bottom shelf then you will be ok and you will be able to buy it at more places around the same price or maybe slightly lower prices. Bottom-line I am glad I travel out of state for work and can bring liquor back because I love good whiskies and regional beers.

    Price Comparisons:
    Makers Mark:
    Total Wine in WA $34.16 (including taxes)
    OR Price: 23.95 (including taxes)
    Total Wine in CA $19.77 (includes 9.9% Sales Tax)

    Bacardi Silver/Gold:
    Total Wine in WA $13.67 (including taxes) (most places sell for 16.07 which is 10.99 shelf price)
    OR Price: $14.95 (including taxes)
    Total Wine in CA $10.42 (includes 9.9% Sales Tax)

    Laphroaig 10:
    Total Wine in WA $70.31(including taxes)
    OR Price: $49.95 (including taxes)
    Total Wine in CA $52.74 (includes 9.9% Sales Tax)

    George T Stagg/Rare Eagle 17:
    Bevmo in WA: $105.251(including taxes) (how much I bought it for)

    OR Price: $81.95(including taxes)
    K and L in CA $ 93.42 (includes 9.9% Sales Tax) (how much I bought it for)

    Jim Beam:
    Total Wine in WA $19.69 (including taxes)
    OR Price: $18.95 (including taxes)
    Total Wine in CA $12.62 (includes 9.9% Sales Tax)

    Highland Park 25 Year:
    Total Wine in WA $424.57 (including taxes)
    OR Price: $261.45(including taxes)
    K and L Wine in CA $318.70 (includes 9.9% Sales Tax) (out of stock at bevmo)

    Sapphire Gin
    Total Wine in WA $24.51 (including taxes)
    OR Price: $24.95 (including taxes)
    Total Wine in CA $20.87 (includes 9.9% Sales Tax)
     
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  18. jspada22

    jspada22 Initiate (0) Jan 24, 2013

    From what I experienced on the liquor store end, the main result of the law change was that we lost several class h accounts (bars or restaurants) because the distributors can sell them products at 17% cheaper than we can. Our only advantage was that we could offer a wider selection. Also it became much harder for us as a retail store to get high end rare's like pappy etc because the allocation emphasis was put on bars/restaurants. So many liquor stores are bringing in growler bars and a wider wine selections because a profit can actually be made on these products while still being competitive in price.
     
  19. Orca

    Orca Grand Pooh-Bah (4,710) Sep 18, 2010 Washington
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    It's official. You just ruined my day.
     
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  20. slinkie

    slinkie Initiate (0) Mar 4, 2011 Washington

    Ouch.
     
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