Water chemistry variability

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by wspscott, Mar 20, 2014.

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  1. wspscott

    wspscott Pooh-Bah (1,958) May 25, 2006 Kentucky
    Pooh-Bah

    The SO4 to Cl ratio changes quite a bit from last July to now. I'm not sure my wife and 3 kids would let me be that geeky anyway :slight_smile:
     
  2. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Grand Pooh-Bah (3,452) May 21, 2010 Texas
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Wow, that's pretty darn variable. Yes, of course take Vikeman's and hopfen's advice. (I really meant it when I said I didn't want to pour over your numbers). :stuck_out_tongue:

    I do brew quite a few hop forward beers. Should I ever have an issue... well, for now I'll just bury my head in this handy sand-pile and then everything will be fine. :grinning:
     
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  3. skivtjerry

    skivtjerry Pooh-Bah (1,865) Mar 10, 2006 Vermont
    Pooh-Bah

    RO is the reliable way to go. Depends on how curious you are about your water (I'd be curious since you drink it and cook with it. Minerals affect taste in more than just beer). Looking at your very limited data, it appears that you have high chloride in the colder part of the year. This could be due to heavy use of road salt for deicing that ends up in the river. So you might want to graph minerals vs weather too (super geeky)! Or just go RO...

    I am so grateful for my soft, soft well water.
     
  4. wspscott

    wspscott Pooh-Bah (1,958) May 25, 2006 Kentucky
    Pooh-Bah

    We had a pretty harsh winter, so I could see salt on the roads affecting the numbers.

    If there was a cheap way to do this vs. sending monthly samples to Ward Labs I would probably find time to do it because it does appeal to the geek in me. So, is there an easy way to estimate Cl and SO4? Some sort of titration method? I assume there is not otherwise more homebrewers would do it. I could measure TDS and assume that the ratios don't change (bad assumption) or I could do ... What?
     
  5. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,647) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    Get a report from the utility. Ask them nicely for the brewing ions, those in the Ward reports above. Some utilities don't test for them, as those are not legally required.
     
  6. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    I wouldn't assume that. Also, it's not just your "flavor" ions that are changing. Your total alkalinity (important in mash pH) is all over the place too.
     
  7. HerbMeowing

    HerbMeowing Maven (1,295) Nov 10, 2010 Virginia
    Trader

    Is it your opinion / experience there's little varibility in water from a well?

    Had my well water tested in winter.
    Have wondered whether it should also be tested in summer.
     
  8. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,647) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    It would depend on the depth and geologic strata.
     
  9. skivtjerry

    skivtjerry Pooh-Bah (1,865) Mar 10, 2006 Vermont
    Pooh-Bah

    Our well water is pretty consistent, thanks to constant excessive precipitation - it overflows about 360 days a year. It is 65ft into fractured bedrock, which is exposed about 10ft from the wellhead, and on a pretty steep slope. All the surrounding higher ground is state forest, so no contamination other than wildlife.

    Unless your well is very shallow or close to a river, it's probably pretty consistent too
     
  10. skivtjerry

    skivtjerry Pooh-Bah (1,865) Mar 10, 2006 Vermont
    Pooh-Bah

    There is an easy titration for chloride and a gravimetric method for sulfate. But unless you have access to a lab or already have reagents and equipment, it would be expensive.

    These test strips can give you ballpark numbers for chloride: http://www.hach.com/chloride-quantab-test-strips-30-600-mg-l/product?id=7640211602

    There are sulfate test strips as well, but they seem less accurate.
     
  11. utahbeerdude

    utahbeerdude Maven (1,374) May 2, 2006 Utah

    Where I go the RO machine is by Culligan. It easily fits 5 gallon carboys. I don't think my 6.5 gallon would fit.
     
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  12. wspscott

    wspscott Pooh-Bah (1,958) May 25, 2006 Kentucky
    Pooh-Bah

    Yeah, I should give them a call. The annual report we get doesn't have any information about the "flavor" ions, just the stuff that has to be tested.
     
  13. wspscott

    wspscott Pooh-Bah (1,958) May 25, 2006 Kentucky
    Pooh-Bah

    I guess this is why more homebrewers don't do water tests themselves. Thanks
     
  14. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Initiate (0) Feb 6, 2013 Minnesota

    This thread inspired me to contact Minneapolis Water, they were very helpful. E-mailed me a list with the maximum and minimum numbers for the entire year 2013. Interesting stuff.

    RECORD OF DATA FOR THE YEAR 2013

    PLANT EFFLUENT WATER ANALYSIS


    PARTS PER MILLION


    CHEMICAL ELEMENT SYMBOL MAXIMUM/MINIMUM/AVERAGE


    Silica SiO2 10.5 6.7 8.3

    Aluminum Al 0.08 <0.01 0.03

    Calcium Ca 33.1 14.4 22.1

    Magnesium Mg 7.2 0.8 3.9

    Sulfate SO4 31.0 18.3 25.7

    Chloride Cl 33.9 22.7 2

    Iron Fe <0.01 <0.01 <0.01

    Manganese Mn <0.01 <0.01 <0.01

    Fluoride F 1.16 0.76 0.98

    Sodium Na 20.2 8.6 13.6

    Total Alkalinity 70 16 39

    Total Hardness (EDTA) 110 45 77

    Total Residue 192 109 158

    Hydrogen Ion Concentration pH 9.89 7.35 8.94

    Chlorine Residual Combined NH2Cl 4.3 2.8 3.8

    Phosphate PO4 1.05 0.64 0.88

    Nitrate NO3-N 1.35 0.419 0.71
     
  15. skivtjerry

    skivtjerry Pooh-Bah (1,865) Mar 10, 2006 Vermont
    Pooh-Bah


    That's how it should be. All water systems have this data but so many make it a PITA to get hold of.
     
  16. kjyost

    kjyost Initiate (0) May 4, 2008 Canada (MB)

    Our city posts it all online (pop:700,000)
     
  17. HerbMeowing

    HerbMeowing Maven (1,295) Nov 10, 2010 Virginia
    Trader

    Shallow well (< 15 m) on the mid-Atlantic coastal plain.
     
  18. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,647) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    A sandy or gravel soil could change quickly due to high permeability. A clay soil would not change quickly.
     
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  19. inchrisin

    inchrisin Pooh-Bah (2,013) Sep 25, 2008 Indiana
    Pooh-Bah

    I think it's also important to note that water profile changes from your plant to how it's piped into your house. What they test there isn't necessarily what's coming out of your tap. It's all ballpark and it will change throughout the year. I know Indianapolis gets their water from three different sources and they change the way they treat the water in the fall and in the spring. I assume it's hard water and I just back it down by adding RO to the mix. I'd like to get more detailed on some of my water profiles and will go to Ward sometime to get some results out of my tap. I think in the meantime if I have trouble with water profile I'll build up from RO or distilled.
     
  20. wspscott

    wspscott Pooh-Bah (1,958) May 25, 2006 Kentucky
    Pooh-Bah

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