Water/mash efficiency

Thanks for this tip! Great info, as usual.

 

I use RO water from the local Meijers, and it tested almost ion free. I add salts, using Bru'nwater to calculate what I need to add. The mash pH comes out within 0.1 of the target (last time it was only 0.03 off).

5.2 stabalizer is one thing I have given up on, I don't need it. If you have very soft water or highly alkaline water it may not help. I trust my pH meter and Brun'nwater to get to my target pH.

 

Like Hopfenunmaltz said, some folks find they don't need 5.2 Stabilizer. I use it, not because I need it necessarily, but for peace of mind.

As to your question, if you add the right salts based on your beginning water profile and the SRM of the beer you're brewing, I'd think that not only would it not mess with 5.2, it might make it easier for it to work, getting you closer to the magic 5.2 pH. Remember, though, while you are adjusting the mash pH with salts, many of the salts you're adding aren't primarily intended to adjust the mash pH as much as they are to help the flavor and stability of the end product. For example, you can achieve a good 5.2 mash pH with the right malts and still have calcium and/or sulfate at far less than 50 ppm, but your resulting beer will taste dull and lifeless. I had that problem for far too long until I realized my calcium content in my water was way, way too low. The link at http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter15-3.html has a secondary link at the bottom of the page to an Excel spreadsheet by John Palmer that will help you determine which salts, residual alkalinity, etc. [/HTML] Of course, you have to know your beginning levels in order to find it of any use at all. (And one day I'll figure out why this site doesn't take standard HTML code...)

Like nathanjohnson said above, it can get complex. The more you learn about water chemistry, the more you learn you don't know about water chemistry. Me, I'm lucky to even spell chemistry without a four-letter head start, but Palmer made it a lot easier to figure it out.

 

I would like to point out that some say that the optimal pH is in the 5.2 -5.5 range depending on the beer. Higher for darker beers is what Gordon Strong says.

 

This sounds overly complicated. I think it is often the simplest answer that is the key. This thread got keyed into water chemistry. Do you think maybe that it could be more simple? Maybe an issue of mashing and sparging with proper volumes of water? Just seems to me that this post focused on water chemistry rather than diagnosing his process to give advise on all the possible issues.

 

Occam's razor definitely applies here, but part of the problem sometimes is due to posters asking multiple questions and not really knowing how to focus their banner/post, IMHO.

 

Well, one of the initial questions was "what adjustments should I make?", which naturally leads to discussions of water chemistry. I believe most of the questions were answered early on, but that one needed a deeper answer, which led to other questions, and so forth. It isn't unusual for a thread to take a meandering path, just like any conversation.

 

The OP also stated that he thought the water was RO water, and that he wasn't using any additions. This in itself would be generally terrible for AG brewing, regardless of the rest of his process.

 

That's really not bad water for a starting point for brewing. Your sulfate level may make adding gypsum to up calcium an iffy proposition, unless you're making an IPA or other bitter beer, but your bicarbonate is fairly low, which makes it easy to work with. I wouldn't worry about the sodium level, because it's within range, and you'll only add it if you use baking soda to up bicarbonates, or table salt (non-iodized!) to up chloride. And with your water, if you want to up chloride, use CaCl. Repeat: That's really not bad water at all. Good for pale ales and amber colored beers as it is, although you want your calcium at least 50 ppm. For most beers in the amber range, you may not need to make any large adjustments at all.

Now read through the Palmer section linked way back at the beginning of this thread (especially the recommended ranges for each mineral), and download his spreadsheet (although some prefer the spreadsheet at http://www.ezwatercalculator.com/ ), plug in your numbers, and you'll see what you can adjust. Just remember that most salts are two minerals, so when you add a salt to change one, you're also changing another (e.g. adding gypsum to add calcium also adds sulfate, and calcium chloride should be self-explanatory).

One more bit of "help": Unless you have a gram scale, you're probably going to be estimating any salt additions by using measuring spoons. While not exact, an approximation for each is as follows:


Chalk / CaCO3

· 1.8 grams per level teaspoon

Baking Soda / NaHCO3

· 4.4 grams per level teaspoon

Gypsum / CaSO4

· 4.0 grams per level teaspoon

Calcium Chloride / CaCl2

· 3.4 grams per level teaspoon

Epsom Salt / MgSO4

· 4.5 grams per level teaspoon

Canning Salt / NaCl

· 6.0 grams per level teaspoon

So if you need 2 grams of chalk, you can get by adding a level teaspoon, etc.

 

Jokelahoma said it, nothing left to say.

 

I have these same questions regarding my water.

 

One tablet is supposed to treat 20 gallons of water, so a quarter tablet. Campden is potassium metabisulphite, so you're adding that, obviously. Minimal, if any, effect, as it's a tiny amount.

 

Total alkalinity and bicarbonates are not exactly the same thing or number but it is a very good aproximation,you don´t need the formula to get exactly how much bicarbonates are in your brewing water, it is a negligible difference.

 

Interesting discussion on water chemistry...prompted me to finally look in to it more thoroughly as I am almost ready to fire up my 10 gal system using all RO water.

I figure a nice middle of the road approach for this is to use 2 tsp gypsum, 3tsp CaCl, and 1tsp baking soda (courtesy of brewersfriend.com/water-chemistry

I realise my chlorides will be a little high , but not terribly so for not using any chalk.

Any better ideas? (apologies for thread jack)

 

What Tebuken said. Your total alkalinity is CaCO3 isn't exactly bicarbonate levels, but they'll usually close enough. Palmer's spreadsheet allows you to choose between using HCO3 and Total Alkalinity as CaCO3. So no, bicarbonate isn't listed on your report, but knowing your total alkalinity is a reasonably close approximation.

 

Depends on your mash volume and sparge volume, GreenKrusty, assuming you're adding all your salts to your mash. If you're doing a 5 gallon batch, with, say, a 4 gallon mash and 5 gallons of sparge, well, I'm guessing here, but I'm betting you could get by with about half that amount of both gypsum and CaCl. Note that I'm no expert by any means. Perhaps some of the guys who actually understand chemistry can chime in.