Water/mash efficiency

Some good comments here:
http://beeradvocate.com/community/threads/buying-a-ph-meter.21313/#post-258515

 

In my case, I'm trying to tune in my water on a new 10 gal system using all RO water, so I'm just looking for ballpark levels for a middle of the road beer for me (eg, Amber). I will add double my usual (for 5 gal batch) 2 oz acid malt in the mash and according to EZwater should be in the ballpark for ph. For individual beers, I'm sure I will be using EZ or Bru'in, because they allow you to put in specific grainbills.

BTW: Am I the only one putting in ~1/2 my minerals/salts into the boil instead of the mash/sparge? I've always assumed (maybe erroniously) that a good portion of those never make it to the boil if added earlier...maybe it is already being taken into account in the software?

 

Whatever portion is dissolved in the wort that stays behind in the mash tun (deadspace and grain absorption) won't make it into the kettle. But from a 'parts per million' perspective (at the mash stage), you probably get the right answer. It's any kettle additions that you might want to 'adjust' from what the spreadsheet tells you to account for the fact that you won't have as much total water as the spreadsheet thinks. Then there's boiloff (changing the PPM again). Even less clear is how much of what you put into the mash tun reacts to form a different compound, so that it won't make it to the boil in a useful form. I don't know of any spreadsheets that account for all this stuff. I'm hoping that Palmer's 'Water' book will shed some light on this.

 

Mineral additions are generally not needed, or are at least less important, for extract brewing, because the 'mash' has already been done, and those minerals are already in the extract. But if you are adding minerals for flavor, you would add according to your total volume (not just boil volume). It's the concentrations in the finished beer that you'll taste, not the concentrations in the kettle.

 

Yes.

Keep in mind though...the extract already has some unknown (to us, if not to the extract manufacturer) amount of calcium, sulfate, and other minerals in it. It's left over from the water that was originally used to mash the grains that became the extract. So you'll end up with more than the spreadsheet is telling you. Just for example, assume the water used to make the extract was just like your tap water. You'd be basically doubling the mineral concentrations when you brew (1/2 from your water, 1/2 already in the extract). An that's before any mineral additions.

Some people have been known to use plain distilled or RO water for extract batches. I would seriously recommend going easy on the mineral additions until you get a feel for what they are doing.

 

For the acid it depends on the concentration. 88% lactic = a little goes a long way. Some programs have a calculator - I like bru'nwater's, just saying.

You can also raise the pH with pickling lime, a little goes a long way. Baking soda is OK if you have the headroom to add more sodium. Chalk dissolves slowly even at mash pH, and it does not give the full effect.

Once again - best to have a pH meter to check when you have added stuff to mash to see where it really is.

 

http://www.ezwatercalculator.com/

(You can also decrease mash pH by adding gypsum, calcium chloride, or epsom salts.)

 

Ok, so in regards to bru'nwater's calculator....

I've got my water all dialed in but I have 2 questions:

1) Do the target concentrations account for yeast health? I'm aiming for a "Black Ballanced" water profile and have arrived at using 100% RO water with .5 gram/gal Pickling Lime to get all of the targets in the green and a nice 5.5 PH. I'm worried though that the extremely low magnisium, sodium, and sulfate levels will be hard on the yeast. Can I get away with not having to go by the LHBS to buy yeast nutrients?

2) Does RO remove chloramine? Or am I going to have to boil it off the day before? Also, won't the chloramine/ chlorine boil out during the wort boil... are these only an issue for folks that don't do a full boil or do they do thier damage to the wort early on (before it is boiled)?

 

1. Ca is needed for the yeast to be healthy and flocculate. Sounds like you have that covered. Mg will come from the mash. Sodium and SO4 are not required for yeast health. Zinc and copper are needed in trace amounts. I have copper parts in the mash tun and boil kettle so it is taken care of. I add zinc to get heathy fermentations, as the wort is zinc poor.

2. RO removes the chlorine and/or chloramine. Smell the RO water and it should not have any odor. Chlorine will boil off, but not chloramine. The damage is done before the boil in the mash, so you will need to have taken care of before you mash in.

 

^ Thanks!
Another little point of interest...

I have several large jars of harvested yeast that I keep around for building up into starters. I think somebody mentioned some yeast nutrient products having dead yeast cells in them. Would it be crazy to add a tablespoon or so of harvested yeast to the boil to so that there are some deadguys in the wort as a source of nutrition?

 

The pH is improtant in a mash. A partial mash is still a mash. If you are off it will have less impact, but why be off target if you can be on?

 

So, if I throw some pennies in the kettle during the boil I should be cool on zinc and copper... right?

No joke, this seems logical to me. I am no chemist though, so let me know if I am way off base here.

 

This would work with copper. Not sure about zinc though. Do you use yeast nutrient? Wyeast Nutrient Blend contains Zinc.

Edit: I just remembered... current pennies have very little copper in them. You really want something with a lot of copper. For me, it's my immersion chiller.