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Discussion in 'BeerAdvocate Talk' started by sberg3, Oct 12, 2020.
I've enjoyed 10 of their beers and I am inclined to agree with you.
Wow that a pretty high score for the style, I’m shocked.
Holy Scheiß. I need to find that Austrian wonder.
Fly to Munich, drive the scenic route to Salzburg (or take the Zug), turn left, enjoy.
They are the vaunted "influencers" trying to influence.
Ach - SO!
If you're expecting an Oktoberfest (pale or amber) you might be surprised...
No worries, I'm not going to find it.
Given that, in just a few years time, almost every local brewery went from never thinking about lagers in general to now deciding to roll out their own version of an Oktoberfest... I would tend to agree with this statement.
Just to annoy you.
Nah. I recognize the real world on my side of the LCD screen.
I know I am a little late to this party, but I had Weihenstephaner Festbier for the first time this year, and my first thought was that this site is off with this beer. I loved it, my 2nd favorite Festbier, and probably my 5th favorite of all Oktoberfests, including Marzens, Festbiers and those odd examples that nestle in between and elsewhere. And I think I have had about 40 different Oktoberfests.
But maybe the issue is simply that people don't appreciate the Festbier style enough. Another thought is that maybe the scores have averaged higher the last couple years, as Festbiers have become more known and understood here vs years ago when Americans mostly only knew about Marzens.
That beer is an Austrian-style Märzen. It's 12.0°. I saw a craft beer website state: "There’s no better to start any discussion of Oktoberfest beers [...] Augustiner Bräu Märzen Bier is 4.6% lager that’s pretty close to Oktoberfest perfection." Um... their English isn't even good. @steveh
It's totally the opposite. Festbiers are becoming less understood here. Every Oktoberfestbier is a Festbier. Every Weihnachtsfestbier is a Festbier too.
Fill in your own blanks.
You know, at least they got their umlauts in the right spots!
Which one, the Export, Oktoberfest, or Vienna?
I am not misinformed as to what is served in the beer tents, but the festbier substyle (@zid ) is not what I am looking for in an Octoberfest seasonal. I can't help what the Germans prefer!
It is an excellent helles, though. (Let's see... where's that "Stir the Pot" meme?...)
You are right. Weihenstephaner Festbier is an excellent Helles Märzen.
All of the ones with less than two ratings are Festbiers... even the amber ones.
Somebody, somewhere else in a parallel thread mentioned that the listings are most often additions by the public. They're only as good as the knowledge of those adding the beers -- or those that suggest corrections. You know?
the person who entered the first one into the system as a Dortmunder Export even says ”Decent Festbier” in his review.
Dortmunder / Oktober... I can see how that could happen!
Funny, I don't even see a Weihnachtsbier at that brewery's web site. Makes you wonder what detail isn't correct.
I just did a search for Weihnachtsbier (https://www.beeradvocate.com/search/?start=10&q=Weihnachtsbier+&type=beer), leaving out the fest part, and it returns 29 Weihnachtsbiers.
Styles are still messed up though; ranging from Helles, Dunkel, and Schwarzbier to Herb & Spice, Bock, and Altbier (there's even a Kolsch thrown in for good measure)
It's not on the brewer's site but on their Instagram - they put it out last Christmas. It's a beer. It's a Festbier. Color has nothing to do with it. Oktoberfest has nothing to do with it. I have no issue with how folks categorized such things on BA when they entered them. That's just a product of the overall approach. This one was a 5.7% golden lager so they went with "export." No biggie. If it was put it in the "Oktoberfest / Märzen" BA category people here wouldn't accept it any better (or even necessarily be any more accurate). Categorization can be funky - so where the beers end up on BA doesn't really bother me... it's the treatment of such placements on BA as gospel that's bizarre (as I mentioned today to you in a different thread about Heady Topper). This picture is making me seriously thirsty.
Sorry -- who mentioned color?
Anyway, I just wanted to see what the brewery called the beer to see where it might rightly be placed.
If it's a Christmas beer, then it must be either a spiced Winter Warmer or a Quad, right?
I'm sorry man. Tone is hard to convey. I didn't mean that as anything contrary to your posts. I'm just shooting the $#*@. If my words seem forceful, they're just supposed to be casual instead.
As soon as I wrote, "where the beers end up on BA doesn't really bother me," I knew someone would show up with a good one. Not that it actually bothers me, but unless there's a good reason for it, Kölsch just pushes it too far. That's Allgäuer's "Winterfestbier." No idea why they listed it as a Kölsch here, but the reviews (plenty of which reference the style classification) are amusing. Someone said it's not a Kölsch but a spiced winter lager. I gotta assume that that's just as wrong and is a bit of the ol' Celebration-syndrome ( @MNAle ). It looks like it's probably just an amber Märzen Festbier. Just to be clear, one reason why the various classifications here don't bother or surprise me is because I don't think it makes much sense to pin down Festbier so narrowly. That's why I'm not a fan of this trend towards defining it as a golden Oktoberfest.
No biggie, was just confused.
As said, I go by what the Brewery calls it before anyone.
A few years ago HB's Winter beer was an outright Festbier of the "golden" variety -- a quite nice one at that. I wish they still offered it instead of the Doppelbock they're exporting now -- probably confused Ami drinkers.
I’ve always used the phrases “pale Oktoberfest” and “amber Oktoberfest”.
I don’t think that’s technically wrong, and no one is confused by what I’m saying.
I agree! I think when some people drink the Wiesn style like Weihenstephaner or Paulaner, they say to themselves, "This doesn't look or taste like a Marzen at all!" I wish one or both would offer it year round.
I always use the phrases "festbier substyle" and "märzen substyle" and I don't think anyone is confused by that either (although the terminology does result in "discussions").
I drank four or five six packs this year. I am a big fan of Weihenstephaner Festbier. It deserves some love.
I don't do that and I wonder how many people I'm confusing or turning off.
IDK about others, but I'm neither confused nor turned off by the discussions.
There is a different terminology as applied to the market in the USA compared with Germany. Even many of the German brewers acknowledge this by the way they label their beers intended for export to the USA.
When I see a beer here labeled "Märzen", I don't equate that as a synonym for "strong", and I suspect that is true of most American beer consumers. I also don't expect it to be a strong helles-like beer, either, as those tend to be labeled as "Festbier." (Now, your suggested label of Helles Märzen, however accurately it used the German terms, might be confusing to American beer consumers! )
What may be confusing to the consumer is that not all brewers, even in this country, apply this terminology consistently.
That doesn’t confuse me either, and I doubt it confuses many Beeradvocate’s.
I wonder how Germans view those terms?
I have been doing this for the past few years. IMO this is the 'best' way to detail these two varying substyles.
In a past NBS thread I discussed the ‘concept’ of German Helles Exportbier for detailing a Pale Oktoberfest beer and conducted a side-by-side tasting of Weihenstephaner Festbier and Augustiner Edelstoff:
A ‘conclusion’ I posted:
“These two beers are indeed quite similar. It seems to me that describing a Pale Oktoberfest as a more heavy duty Helles (i.e., a German Helles Exportbier) is a fair statement.”
For the overwhelming majority of American beer drinkers the word “Märzen” refers to the color of the beer, not the strength (most probably aren't even aware of that meaning).
Much of the confusion would be eliminated by simply having two separate style listings
Märzen/Oktoberfest (amberish Oktoberfests or labeled as märzen)
Festbier (encompassing palish beers for any fest)