Weihenstephaner 1516 Kellerbier

It certainly looks the part of a German Marzen, at least in the photos I've seen. I actually picked up some leftover Paulaner Marzen (one of my favorites) last week that still had a long freshness date on it. I had a few and they are every bit as fresh as the ones I had last September. I will be able to compare these two authentic German lager styles if needed. I suspect the Marzen to be more malty than the Kellerbier. We'll see.

 

I have to wonder if the east coast got some sort of different or younger batch of the 1516. The six-pack I have is quite hoppy bitter -- near to astringent if you pour vigorously and get the sediment in suspension.

 

Did you see @AlcahueteJ 's previous post (#78) ? He seems to have had a much better experience decanting it.

 

Yep, he knows. We've discussed it separate from this thread.

 

I think you post demonstrated the topic pretty well. Drink draft or decant for bottles for an non-astringent drinking experience.

Thank you for making that post.

Cheers!

 

I'm going to pour a Paulaner Marzen and a Weihenstephaner Kellerbier side by side tonight, in the same glass the Marzen is going to be darker.

Maybe you're thinking the lighter Festbier, you know, the golden lager they serve at Oktoberfest. They don't serve the darker kind there anymore.

1516 certainly doesn't have a strong malt backbone like an amber Marzen. 1516 is closer to a Kolsch or a Pils in body.

I see their site in Deutsch says it's like the old March brewed beers, and perhaps it is. The Amber Marzens we enjoy today as "Oktoberfest" beers in the US are relatively new, and perhaps this represents some older "March" beer. Whatever it is supposed to be, I don't care for it so far.

I'll try pouring it and leaving the sediment at the bottom to see if it improves, but honestly, even with less bitterness it's maltiness is pathetic.

 

Are you of the opinion that a German brewed Kolsch beer has pathetic maltiness?

Cheers!

 

As @Jason posted some time ago in a WBAYDN thread... I am scanning beer shelves for this brew intently!

 

As @AlcahueteJ mentions, I decanted in different manners too. My final sample for the review was poured to keep as little sediment out of the glass as possible -- still not as smooth tasting as I was expecting.

 

Good point Jack, I don't think they have pathetic maltiness.

I love those styles when done right, of course. Especially Kolsch.

I should clarify - I think this beer (1516) has less malt back bone than a kolsch or pils.

I've also noticed that beer tastes better after I've brought it home and let it sit for a day in the fridge. Any thoughts on why that is?

 

Maybe just psychological and as simple as, after a day your anticipation and expectations have calmed to a more reasonable level for the beer. Or, the transport of the beer has an affect that also settles out.

 

That's what I had thought, but it's always good to get other opinions. I do tend to notice it more on beers that have a "yeasty" element more so than beers that are filtered or are pure malty in taste.

 

Can I have the rest then?

 

@AlcahueteJ, what are your thoughts about the malt backbone of this beer? Does it taste "pathetic" to you?

Cheers!

 

I really like this offering. It goes down dangerously fast. I poured the first one while making dinner and it disapeared rather quick. I waited until the food was ready and poured another. I made broiled tilapia with parslied red skinned potatoes and fried cabbage and the 1516 went with this perfectly and again disappeared rather fast. I poured a third one and sipped on it to cleanse my palate before having coconut/amaretto panna cotta with mixed berry brandy compote for dessert. I'm now on my 4th one and expect the sixer might not last the evening.
To quickly sum up this beer, I would say that a Pilsner would be like if salsa was made from completely raw ingredients and consumed. While the 1516 is like if all the same ingredients were roasted and caramelized and simmered together for an few hours and chilled before consumption. All the same flavors are there but there is the slight sweetness from the caramelization and generally much smoother flavor characteristics. Maybe a tweener for Pilsner and Marzen.

 

Certainly not Amber Marzen in color, but certainly could be mistaken for a golden Marzen in color. Note the cloudiness in comparison.

It tastes better to me tonight, I poured it a lot slower and left a small amount of stuff in the bottle. It's less astringent (still a bit on the palate in the finish, like a slightly bad after-taste), more pleasantly bitter with a nice hop character. Reminds me a lot of Kolsch. Without as much astringency, the malt character is a little more apparent, and I'd say it's cracker like. I can see where some people would say it comes to a Festbier in maltiness, I suppose. It's indeed like a baby of a pilsner and a golden Marzen.

I'm still not the biggest fan, and I certainly would love to try it on draft. I also still think that from a "kellerbier" or a "proto-Marzen" I'd like a little more malt heft.

 

I think if it had more malt heft it wouldn't be a Kellerbier it would be a Marzen.

 

Kellerbier is kind of a catchall term though, isn't it? Anyone who's had beers in Franconia care to chime in? I won't argue against what you're saying, I am not experienced enough to know. I've only had american "kellerbiers"

I think the astringency in my six pack even with leaving some of the mild sediment in the bottle is just bothering me too much...

Also, they are trying to say this is a Marzen beer. I think there's a fair amount of crossover historically between the two styles.

Drinking these beers side by side makes it clear that 1516 is nothing like an amber Marzen "oktoberfest" beer. Totally different malt profiles.

 

I think Kellerbier is basically a Pilsner that is set in cold caves or cellars to be consumed during the months that beer was not being made. This changed the flavor characteristics slightly as it rested and aged and was called Keller bier.
While Marzen is brewed to have a slightly higher ABV to be consumed during Oktoberfest. The extra maltiness and color comes from the process of making the higher ABV. It is only like +1-2% higher ABV. At least that's what I was told by the owner of Gunpowder Falls Brewery in PA. He did go to Germany for his training.
I think you either like this beer or you don't. I think it is delightfully smooth but has some hop bite to it.

 

Considering Pilsners are a relatively new style compared to kellerbiers, I'm not sure to compare it to pilsners is right. It's an old, old style of unfiltered lighter lagers.

Here's what Weihenstephan says about it on their german website (I've not taken German in years, so I may have some things wrong. Google Translate was pretty bad :\) :

The anniversary beer "Weihenstephaner 1516" is a naturally cloudy beer. During the brewing process, the brewmasters are keeping to the traditional method of production of a March beer. Due to the Bavarian beer regulation of 1553, breweries in Bavaria are only allowed to brew between 29 September and 23 April to brew beer. This was one part fire protection, but on the other hand could be that the it wasn't cool enough for the already very popular pale beer, until about 1900 because the refrigerator found its way into the breweries.

In March, therefore the last beer of the brewing season was brewed - the Märzen, which was stored in ice cellars throughout the summer. So also the "Weihenstephaner 1516" matures cold and long, not filtered in the historic vaulted cellars on Weihenstephan Hill, and before bottling.

Through his long time, the lager yeast is naturally from the ground? and gives the beer a light cloudy haze. The dark barley malt gives the beer its light amber appearance and simultaneously gives it its toasty, pleasant caramel flavor and a rich body.

The brewers of anniversary beer decided to use an old and very rare type of hops, the "Hallertau Record". This traditional hop variety is grown only on about one hectare in the world and gives the beer a pleasant bitterness and a unique character. In addition, the fruity and spicy hop variety "Hallertauer Perle" is used. A particularly tasty hops flower fills the "Weihenstephaner 1516" with the scent of noble aroma hops "Hallertauer Mittelfrüh" at the end of the boil. The delicate flavors of the hops are spared by the late addition and can thus develop their full flavor. This carefully balanced combination of superior raw materials creates a mild-drinkable cellar beer.