Weihenstephaner Original Freshness Issues

Interesting. I can't imagine a store owner/beer manager would believe that. Unless the beer had a "sell by" date rather than "best by" and assume the date is the date it should be sold to the retailer (unless I'm misunderstanding this).

But I suppose if that was what everyone was doing back then, I could see them simply taking the distributor/brewery for their word. But in 2018, with so much awareness about freshness, I'd personally have a hard time believing the distributor/brewery.

He should be able to believe it. Regardless, if someone with any knowledge of beer whatsoever told me a Helles is still good at over a year after bottling, I would simply smile and move on.

And I don't believe Weihenstephan has a "best by" date, just that weird "bottled on" code.

 

Well, the retailer is at the mercy of the distributor. No matter what the retailer "believes", it is very unlikely a distributor is going to pull a beer and replace it with fresher stock/exchange it that has not yet past the brewer's own "best by/sell by/enjoy before/pull" date.

Hell, retailers have difficult in too many cases (sadly) getting distributors to do it for beer that is beyond the brewer's suggest freshness date.

 

Oh, absolutely. I was referring to @steveh's story specifically. It sounded like the retailer was potentially trying to sell old stock, as in stock that's past its best by date.

That sucks.

A store could always contact the brewery and see if they'll take it back I suppose.

 

We have seen some old (6 month) beer of ours appear at outlets. When it does, we contact the distributor and offer to replace the old stuff with fresh. We built our brand partially on ultra-fresh product and feel that strongly about it. That said, we are hyper local and a small operation with limited supply beyond our own pop-up beer gardens, so it is a bit easier for us to keep track.

 

That's ridiculous. The liquor stores around here are run by the Provincial government and luckily, they seem to be pretty reasonable about not leaving old beer on the shelf. That should not be a conversation you should ever have to make when buying beer.

 

I feel that some really don't want to take a hit on the loss and know that in all likelihood, someone will buy it.

Two examples that ring home for me. I was on vacation and the owner of a place with a huge beer selection (package store) saw me looking at some WCIPA (which I rarely buy but it hit me that day)--the dates put the beer >1 yr old. The owner told me (very sincere)--some folks age those--it's fine. The kid running the register rolled his eyes.

I went to a legitimate good craft beer bar in my town that gets some less common stuff on tap--one I don't always go to--and while milling about, saw Victory Harvest ale in August that was from the year before. When I casually mentioned it to someone stocking shelves, they said--"yeah, should probably get rid of that." They didn't for a month and haven't been back since that month later to see if they cleared it when last seasons arrived.

Some places ignorant --still.
Some places just greedy.
Some places seem it's just not important to them.

 

Agreed but that definition of "old" varies a lot.

What folks call old here and brewery "best buy" dates are two different concepts. There should be no argument if past the "drink by" dates.

Also, for beer with bottled on as the only date, who decides that?

 

You have a few good questions that I don't have answers for.

 

Of course these production techniques don't preserve the freshness of the product nor do they extend shelf life to one year as claimed. That was my point and why I said my personal cut off for such beers is 3-4 months. Properly stored and fresh these beers are World class but when old, well, they just taste old and tired.

 

I can usually get Origional and Hefe here at or under 3 months, surprisingly the local Lowes Foods is a far better bet than any of the better beer stores, go figure. I'm sure that date could be extended a bit, but I don't buy it often and I'm willing to wait on optomial dates. If I went 6 months with only seeing 4-5 month old beers I'd probably bite, knowing it would be fine. But for $12-13 a six I'd prefer better dates.

 

Thank goodness it's easy to find relatively fresh Urquell. The price is right, too.

I don't tend to see super fresh Weihenstephaner around me, but when I do I pounce on it.

 

Me too but those times have become less and less frequent for me. I used to enjoy buying Weihenstephaner Oktoberfestbier beers in the past since they were seasonals but the past few years these beers available in my area were bottled in early May (for September drinking?) and this just seems out of whack to me!!

Cheers!

 

I'm assuming to save money and to export in volume they take the slow boat. But it would seem to me that even 4 months is a bit long, perhaps with wind driven ships in 1820 it would be about right. I can't explain the 4 month gap.

 

Most certainly true -- and they resent educated consumers, who know more about their product than they do, pointing out their error(s) -- even when the consumer has been a pretty loyal customer.

I once identified some Salvator or Optimator (can't recall which at this point) that was over a year old. The retailer told me, "Oh, those strong imports last forever." Stopped buying imports at that spot.

 

But the industry is structured (supposedly...) so that the retailer isn't supposed to "take ...the loss" - the distributor and/or the brewer (based on contractual agreement) is. That is not an unusual situation - retailers of books, magazines & newspapers, as well as bakery, dairy and other food products - many with even shorter "shelf life" periods than beer - also routinely return unsold product for credit/exchange.

As often noted, many distributors are, um... "reluctant" to take that loss and thus results much of the fiction that many retailers parrot about some beers being "still good" when beyond even the brewers' wishes. Hey, it's what their distributor told them.

In addition, many distributors don't routinely accept less-than-case quantities, so if the retailer sold one, two or three sixpacks out of a case, those remainder might sit forever on the "singles" shelf (or until a brewer's rep come along and agrees to cleans up their shelves in collaboration with the wholesaler).

The contract between the wholesaler and the brewer should include the brewer's recommended shelf-life of their beers (even when not stated on the label) with the stipulation that beer past that date should be removed and destroyed as well as an agreement on which company is responsible for those costs.

Pilsner Urquell, when they began their "Freshness Initiative", stated that it took their beer 21 days to go from the Czech Republic to Hamburg via train and then to the US East Coast by container ship.

In 2008, Heineken (which claims to be the largest "containerized importer on the trans-Atlantic" - but, considering the labels on most goods sold in the US these days, I guess it makes sense) says their lead time to East Coast is 8-14 days, 5 weeks to the West Coast.

Likely, the biggest delay in getting imports on the shelves in the US is transportation from the port to the importer and then from the importer to the local distributor (unless some full containers are shipped directly to distributors?), after which it suffers the same neglect that much US beer does at the wholesale and retail levels.

 

Just as an aside, but I always just assumed that the importer is more of a paper pusher and doesn't really physically handle the beer. This is mostly based on seeing only distributor trucks entering and exiting the docks at Red Hook. It seems to save time that way.

 

Yeah, it's a not well-known aspect of imported beer logistics. I agree, Heineken USA headquarters in White Plains doesn't warehouse all that Heineken, Amstel, Red Stripe and all their Mexican brands before it ships out to their 650 wholesalers.

I imagine that some importers use a bonded independent warehouse at the port after going through customs and distribution to local distributors goes through there, either by (local-ish) distributors picking it or using independent trucking co's for more distant wholesalers?

In that article, Heineken USA is said to have six "demand centers" (importer warehouses?) throughout the US. Unlikely that some small Heineken wholesale distributor in, say, Tennessee, is sending it's own truck to the east coast container ports but they or Heineken likely contract with a trucking firm to deliver it to them.

And probably there is some "drop shipping" where one distributors may act as a "master distributor" in a region, which gets the product and other local distributors in the state/region pick there supply up there? That, supposedly, even happens with some craft beer shipped from one coast to another.

 

More on that:

And, from a story on the opening of Heineken's Georgia "demand point" warehouse in '08:

But, given Heineken USA's size in the US which makes them the #4 brewer with 4% market share, I'd guess their distribution network is more sophisticated with more company-owned facilities than smaller importers.

 

Thanks for the post.

Not sure which east coast ports they use but as a former Naval officer, I can tell you that the docks on any east coast seaport in the country from NY to Miami, are hot as Hades all summer and if any of that beer goes through the Port of Charleston, that beer has been subjected to "cruel and unusual punishment."

 

Beyond not getting the cultural experience, I think this is one reason German beer gets so little attention among new drinkers. I'd dare say that the vast majority of the stuff on the shelf is way past its prime. Yes, there are pockets where things move quickly, but that isn't the case in most of the country.
Back in the 90's I thought most German beer was harsh and skunky because most of the stuff on the shelf is. I've heard the same thing from many other geeks who love just about everything else. They're always a little shocked when trying fresh legit German style beers because it isn't what they assumed at all.
Anyway, the beers from Weihenstephaner are almost universally world class when fresh. To me I'd say that's within 90-100 days of bottling. Obviously fresher is better, but if they aren't sitting on a room temperature shelf under a bunch of lights I've had 'em at 3-4 months and been happy.