Wet Hopped IPAs - Fall 2016

The exact one I was going to mention as well. Picked some up from the brewery last week and it's better than last year's batch. IMO.

 

Really looking forward to Sixpoint's Sensi

 

How sure are you about storing wet hops in a warehouse? Sounds pretty exceptional to me. Ask a farmer about composting, wet hay, and fires...

 

"Fresh" can be short for "freshly cured", who can say which meaning is right? More literal? Sure. The comparison to basil isn't perfect, but I don't think any (comparisons) are. Do you think of a fresh cigar as uncured? If you use cannabis, same thing.

Celebration isn't brewed very long after Harvest. Who is using the term "wet hops" for hops stored for weeks, uncured?

 

No one. I think he was taking it to extremes to prove the point that "wet" past its prime is still "wet" but "fresh" has an unofficial limit of 24 hours among most brewers in the NW. The majority of local breweries time their brew day around the arrival of the hops driven from the fields, so it's usually <8 hours with a decent segment <2 hours.

 

Yes, I misused wet in that way. I didn't mean to say that they are just hops sitting around. More that they are dried, and baled, but not processed into oils or pellets. The fact that SN admits that they sit around for weeks before use should reinforce the fact that those hops are not fresh. Call 'em wet, but no way are they fresh. By their logic, an apple picked in Autumn, but held in cold storage until spring is still fresh.

 

Hmmm, there's a lot packinged into that comment. So lets upack a few of the assumptions. Basically you also seem to saying the entire food industry is wrong in distinguising between "fresh picked produce" and "fresh produce"? Then aren't you also saying as well that 100-200 or so brewers in the PNW are the only ones who have it right, despite the fact that the brewing industry has used "fresh hops" (not "fresh picked hops") as a way of differentiating their product? Finally, aren't you also saying that the PNW brewers are not using their own definition of "fresh" as a marketing device?

 

Fresh Wet Frozen Dried
Who has even had fresh fish that doesn't live on a coastal water? Fresh frozen? Frozen Fresh?
Just picked Hops immediately dried would be fresh but not wet no?
Just picked hops and into the wort immediately or as soon as bloody possible would be wet but when does fresh tag expire? In my opinion they're fresh until they're bad just like produce which is what they are.

 

Breweries all across the country have Fedex'd hops in from Yakima, and brewed beer within 24 hours of harvest. More hops are being grown in more places, giving more breweries the chance to use hops that are both local and fresh. No where have I said that the PNW has an exclusive on fresh hop brews. If people believe that an agricultural product that is days, or even weeks old when used is still fresh, I can't change that. I can, however, politely decline that meal they offer me using "fresh" ingredients, if that's the definition.

Your use of "fresh picked" seems odd to me. As I mentioned upthread, all produce is "fresh picked" at some point. Even the corn used to make Doritos was grown and fresh picked. I don't think anyone will ever argue that Doritos are a Fresh Corn chip. If folks want to drink the SN koolaid on this, so be it. I grew up on farms, and we never took any produce to farmers market that was more than 24 hours old, and labeled it Fresh. Even here in the PNW, a clear distinction is made between "fresh salmon', "fresh caught (much like your Fresh Picked) salmon" and "previously frozen salmon" in the stores. The fact that that fish went from swimming to frozen in a matter of minutes doesn't mean that when you thaw it out, that it's still fresh.

SN's view on this seems to be in line with definition #7 here, while mine is more in line with #1: http://www.dictionary.com/browse/fresh?s=t

 

Well, with the corn analogy I was simply picking up something first introduced by someone else.

But freshly dried hops are different than dried hops allowed to sit around for months and they are most certainly different that pelletized hops. But the real focus of this discussion in my mind has to do with the use of the term "fresh." Sure beers made with "fresh picked" hops taste different than those using "fresh" or pellitized hops. But in my mind, that's not the point at issue. The issue is the redefinition of the term "fresh" when compared to "fresh picked."

Going back to the fresh basil example/analogy why isn't drying the hops a step taken with hops to ensure they are in a state closest to "fresh-picked" as possible? Sure the processing affects the hops, but then so does the processing done by those preping "fresh produce" for the marketplace. Some of those include picking the produce when semi-ripe and gassing it to slow down ripening.

The brewing industry, not just Sierra Nevada, has used "fresh" for years to mean hops used relatively soon after harvest and after steps being taken to protect them from deterioration over time (see multiple posts by JessKidden in this and other threads illustrating the use of the term "fresh" by breweries in an era before "freshly picked hops" became the latest in thing. What suddenly makes them wrong and the PNW brewers right? When a particular term used for years by multiple different producers/sellers of foods and beverages there's bound to be controversy when some new kids on the block insist that they have the right to redefine the term fresh and tell others they are wrong.

As for your comment about brewing with hops of different ages, you'll have to take that up with those who know brewing better than I do. But I've always heard something like the notion that "fresh" hops (as opposed to "freshly picked hops" have a life expectancy before decline becomes noticeable to the senses and are typically used long before that decline becomes a problem.

 

While Belgian brewers typically used pelletized hops in brewing gueuze, primarily what they want is the preservative effects but not the flavors so they typically used only aged hops that have been sitting around for a year or so before use.

 

I find it quite amusing that there are BA's which will argue/correct @sierranevadabill about hops and there usage. I mean really?

How many on this site has had near the success of producing and selling Hop induced liquid with either fresh, wet, dried, pellet or past it's prime hops? I don't see many hands.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but some of these remarks and corrections with someone who was on the forefront of this craft revolution I find ridiculous and helps reinforce opinions that many people have of beer snobs and if you don't know who you are others do.

Personally I enjoy when @sierranevadabill @Sixpoint and others in the trades come on here and give us insight, information, corrections etc. but to state they're wrong, misusing terms, taking advantage of nubes (everyone starts somewhere) is bloody ridiculous.

Done with rant, have a nice day

 

I don't recall saying that PNW has an exclusive on "freshly picked hop" brews since my focus is on the use of the term "fresh." If I said anything that suggested that to you my apologies. What I am asking for is a valid reason why the term fresh, as used in many areas must be used only in the way currently popular among fans of "directly from bine to pot" when there is already a previously existing use and meaning of "fresh."

I use "fresh picked" because "wet hops" doesn't mean fresh from the bine, as you pointed out and which I think we both agree is critical to the flavors of the beer. I use "fresh picked" because I do not yet see any sold reason to accept the redefinition of "fresh" to mean only mean "used almost immediately after being picked from the bine with out any other processing" and saying that everyone else is wrong. Again, this is an issue of terminology but there is an established use of the difference between "fresh picked" and "fresh."

Yes, all produce was once fresh picked, there is also wide spread usage of the term "fresh picked" by restaurants, produce stores, and many in the food processing industry. to use "fresh picked" as a differentiating indicator that the produce came directly from farm/garden to table.

Hmm, don't like "freshly picked" but "freshly caught salmon" is allowed. Puzzling.

 

I was speaking tongue in cheek about how eventually someone will figure out how to put a marketing spin on faded hops.

Yes, I understand some Belgians producers such as Cantillon age their hops as long as three years before use.

 

Ahhh, there's the crux of it, isn't it? SN (and I keep using them as my example because they're the brewery most folks here can relate to, not attacking them) accepts the concept that "fresh" is open ended. I, admittedly stubbornly (you should talk to me in real life, I'm significantly more strident), see the term "Fresh" as very, very finite. Some produce can be stored for long periods of time without significant degradation, potatoes for example can be kept in a cool, dark place for a long time (it's why so many old houses had a Root Cellar), while others need to be consumed or processed quickly, ever notice how quickly an apple turns brown once you've cut it open? Produce that is weeks old can never be fresh in my view.

 

That's just how I've seen it labeled in the stores.

 

Just my opinion on this, but, marketing is not a new thing. It's certainly understandable that a given company would want to put their product in the best possible light, and if consumers just happened to interpret their phrasing in a certain way, well what can ya do?Just because a term has been used a long time, doesn't mean that it has been used correctly that whole time (see Dank).

I grew up in an agricultural area. All my childhood and teenage jobs (and even in adulthood, when I needed some extra cash) were on farms. Apples, pears, peaches, corn, cherries, potatoes, onions, celery, lettuce, and more, I dealt with 'em for my pocket money for 20 years. Fresh is clearly defined in my minds eye. Maybe folks from more urban/suburban backgrounds see it differently.

 

Yes. For me the crux of the issue is why we should change the accepted usage of "fresh" rather than refer to them as "freshly picked" just as do many others. (e.g., your Salmon producers/sellers who have used "fresh caught" to attract your attention and communicate something critical to you.

I think we are both relatively stubborn, both on here and in real life.

Of course produce has an expected life span after being picked. But as I raised earlier, where are those dividing lines between when it is fresh and no longer fresh? When does that potato get transformed from fresh to not fresh, well it depends on a variety of conditions, as you point out they include such things as storage temperature, light exposure, etc.

Yes a cut apple turns brown quickly. I assume this is meant as an analogy to the processing to convert "freshly picked hops" into dried and bailed. But notice that the time frames are not identical. If I slice the apple and eat slices along with my dinner I still consider them fresh until they deteriorate enough to turn brown, reducing their visual appeal but not noticably impacting their flavor.

It's already been noted that many folks sell "fresh" produce that has been pre-treated to prevent rapid deterioration while being shipped from farm to table. If that's legitimate, why are equivalent steps take with hops not?

 

On one of the cooking shows a resturant featured fresh salmon on the menu with the owner proudly saying the fish was fresh because it was frozen right after being caught.

Okay, I'll accept "wet hops" as dew sparkled just picked off the vine (I know it's a bine but it looks like a vine) and tossed into a kettle of boiling wort as a method of producing a slightly different beer. My question is does that make a better beer or just another beer?

 

I, personally, don't see it as legitimate. To me Fresh is about 24 hours. Yes, 48 hour old strawberries are still tasty, but I don't see them as fresh. In my eye, fresh is now, not later.