What do you think defines “craft” beer and brewing?

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by JackHorzempa, May 25, 2025.

  1. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    BA is very much an American centric site and the term “craft brewing” is by all accounts an American created term. I discussed this aspect:

    “Who was the person who coined the term “craft beer”? There is debate here but Vince Cottone (beer writer/consultant) was among the first to use the term “craft brewery” in the 1980’s. A benefit of this terminology is that it does not just refer to the scale of beer production but also to the quality and taste profile of the product itself. A craft beer may be produced by a small brewery but it was more: a beer that was not “fizzy yellow beer”.”

    https://www.morebeer.com/articles/What_Is_Craft_Beer

    I have read a number of British beer blogs and watched a number of British videos and it seems that at least in the UK some folks use the terminology of “craft beer” to describe American style beers such as Hazy IPAs, etc.

    Just yesterday I created a thread entitled: “A Very Pleasurable Assault to the Senses” – St. Mars of the Desert Brewery”. The brewery is located in Sheffield, England. In that thread I embedded a video where the Craft Beer Channel guys discuss four beers from St. Mars of the Desert Brewery and one of the guys (Jonny) would refer to these beers as being Belgian-like since they were quite ‘different’. For example, one of the beers was branded as being a Helles but that beer was not like any Helles beer as would be brewed in Germany. That beer was described as being “hazy” and “sherbety” and “incredibly fruity” and “very hoppy’ and…words that you would never associate with a German brewed Helles.

    Jonny and Brad also described the brewing ‘philosophy’ of the brewery as being ‘creative” and “artistic” which are terms I associate with craft breweries in the US. I am not a fan of Pastry Stouts but personally I think the brewers who produce those sorts of beers are quite creative and artistic in their beer recipe formulation.

    The head brewer of St. Mars of the Desert is Dann Paquette and he is American, formerly brewing beers in Massachusetts with the brewery label of Little Things. Given this brewing background maybe it would be more appropriate to describe the beers of St. Mars of the Desert as being “craft” beer despite the fact that the brewery is located in England?

    What are y’all thoughts here. Should “craft” beer be something beyond breweries located in the US?

    Cheers!
     
  2. LeinenkugelDrinker

    LeinenkugelDrinker Pooh-Bah (2,351) Feb 14, 2023 Nevada
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    The term “craft beer” should apply to any beer brewed by a small, independently owned brewery or “microbrewery”. That’s what I always thought anyway, regardless of whether or not that brewery produces “fizzy yellow beer”. I personally prefer the word “microbrew” over “craft beer” but consider the two interchangeable. “Craft beer” sounds rather pretentious to my ears.

    Why should it matter where the microbrew is brewed? Why should it not be considered “craft beer” just because it’s brewed outside the US?
     
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  3. MistaRyte

    MistaRyte Pooh-Bah (2,681) Jan 14, 2008 Virginia
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    In other words:

    ****: I don't know but I know it when I see it
    CRAFT BEER: I don't know but I know it when I don't see it everywhere

    I've heard craft beer called cerveza artesenal in Mexico and Central America... Goes with the artisanal/artistic comment above.
     
  4. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Just to doublecheck, the beers produced by Stone, New Belgium, Founders, Elysian, Goose Island,…are not “craft beer”?

    Cheers!
     
  5. BBThunderbolt

    BBThunderbolt Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,846) Sep 24, 2007 Kiribati
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    I agree with this.
     
  6. BBThunderbolt

    BBThunderbolt Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,846) Sep 24, 2007 Kiribati
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    No.
     
  7. Shanex

    Shanex Grand Pooh-Bah (4,960) Dec 10, 2015 France
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I agree with defining craft beer (« bière artisanale » for us here) as being typically microbrewed, « family » owned and good.

    AB is not craft, but Sierra Nevada is…? Yeah I know and I’m aware of what I may start here with this assessment.

    Many advocate for drinking local and good, that’s super nice to support your towns products but some of them sadly aren’t worth it, and are twice the price of non craft and former microbreweries that were bought over by evil Heineken or AB…
     
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  8. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Do French beer drinkers use the terminology of craft beer (bière artisanale in the French language?) akin to British beer drinkers?

    Cheers!
     
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  9. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Time to make some :popcorn:?:flushed:

    Cheers!
     
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  10. Shanex

    Shanex Grand Pooh-Bah (4,960) Dec 10, 2015 France
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Only pretentious, snooty and arrogant French ones.

    That’s a lot of us. :wink:

    ‘Cheers!
     
  11. Orca

    Orca Grand Pooh-Bah (4,710) Sep 18, 2010 Washington
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I don’t care for the term “craft” and use it only when trying to describe the kind of beer I enjoy to people who in most cases know less about beer than I do. There can be bad craft beer and there can (sometimes) be good macro beer. A lot—but not all—of what we call “craft” is produced by small, independent breweries. Much of it is produced by people who are more passionate about making interesting beer than maximizing profits. That’s about as far as I’ll go. I enjoy what we call craft beer more than I enjoy non-craft beer because it often better represents the community and culture where it’s produced, but even that is a broad (and flawed) generalization.
     
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  12. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    [​IMG]
     
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  13. LeinenkugelDrinker

    LeinenkugelDrinker Pooh-Bah (2,351) Feb 14, 2023 Nevada
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    Of course not. Is Budweiser “craft beer”? Stella Artois? Blue Moon, Leinenkugel’s, Rolling Rock, Rainier?
     
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  14. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Stone (and others above) are “craft beers” IMO. We appear to disagree here.

    Cheers!
     
  15. zotzot

    zotzot Grand Pooh-Bah (5,352) Feb 22, 2015 Vermont
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    We need a term to distinguish beers such as Stone, New Belgium, Founders, Elysian, Goose Island from Bud, Stella… if not Craft, then what?

    I live in Vermont but often drink beer from Lagunitas, Sierra, etc. since it is often better and cheaper. I’ve had a lot of beer from small ‘craft’ brewers which wasn’t really very good. Should I drink lower quality beer since’ it is ‘craft’?
     
  16. bubseymour

    bubseymour Grand Pooh-Bah (4,800) Oct 30, 2010 Maryland
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Perhaps we need to start with accepting that micro/craft/artisanal beers/brewers are the same thing with different titles and polar opposite of macro beers. IMO macro beers are AALs and Euro Lagers mass produced. So first, can we all agree that any caged and corked bottle of wild/mixed fermented beer easily can be classified as “craft/micro/artisanal” beer? If we are all in agreement, then let’s work down the beer styles to where the debate /grey area starts to get fuzzy. Perhaps we move to barrel aged beers. Is BCBS a craft/micro/artisanal beer despite being made by InBeV? I’d say yes, but perhaps there is some debate because of who the owner is now.
     
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  17. LeinenkugelDrinker

    LeinenkugelDrinker Pooh-Bah (2,351) Feb 14, 2023 Nevada
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    Well they were craft beers until they got swallowed up by the big conglomerates. As others have noted, they still put out a good consistent product but certainly shouldn’t be classified as craft beer/microbrew/artisan/whatever. When I was researching who owns Founders, I noticed Wikipedia (super reliable source) uses the term “craft style”. Perhaps “craft style” brewer is a good term for these former microbreweries?

    :beers:
     
  18. sharpski

    sharpski Grand Pooh-Bah (3,100) Oct 11, 2010 Oregon
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    It’s time to move away from these terms, and just call it “beer.” Sierra Nevada puts many small, artisanal breweries to shame with their quality, legit breweries have been bought and sold by bigger entities (other breweries, PE groups, cannabis conglomerates, etc.), one person making phenomenal beer but renting tank space until they can bootstrap a brewery of their own, no single adjective can encompass this and have any consistent meaning to different people.
     
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  19. BBThunderbolt

    BBThunderbolt Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,846) Sep 24, 2007 Kiribati
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    Let's call beers by Stone, Elysian, Founders et al "Faux Craft".
     
  20. dcotom

    dcotom Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,637) Aug 4, 2014 Iowa
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I don't care who the owner is unless it's AB-InBev.
     
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