What is this section for?

You're logic is sound. However, if you have to ask if you're doing it right, you're probably not. Just my $.02.

 

I think these threads are fine. It is along the same lines as asking what some recent completed trades for the beer have been.

Threads asking what the minimum amount to acquire the beer are the ones that aren't ok.

 

I use it to find people I will have no desire to trade with.

Very useful tool, but those threads get deleted.

People should see when BAs are blatantly trying to maximize trade value in this forum like today.

 

It's become a place for those of us "in the know" to be rude, condescending, & dickish to newbies.

The next time someone wanders in with only 3 or 4 trades under their belt wondering "What can I trade my new mini-whale for?" it would be really, really refreshing for someone to gently tell them how this community works, & that while it's a free market, it's also a place where we make new friends by being generous, both in person & via trade. In the long run, that's going to be a lot more fun (& rewarding) than trying to maximize the value of that beer you're clutching in your sweaty palms. At least I hope that's sweat.

Sure, there are people who know better & are just trying to get 'em some. But assuming everyone is being a greedy dick is just as bad as being a stupid dick everytime someone asks a dumb question.

 

I wish I could figure out the best way to be rude, condescending, and dickish to this mini-whale post.

 

The likes from this area seem to go away after a few days, or even hours.

I sorta use this area to go TwelveBashing.

In all honesty though, Dom had it right. It's best used for factual information about beer. Price, count, availability.

I would like to add, it's great for:

- Bad trader warnings
- Shippings tips

 

This section was made for threadshitters to vent out their frustration rather than in the ISOs. The disguised auctions here couldn't have been predicted.

 

As a former trader, I use it to remind myself partly why I stopped trading.

 

I am also annoyed by the endless "What can I get for this?" threads, but on the other hand I can understand why people post them and I think in many cases it has nothing to do with trying to start an auction. Beer trading is, in economic terms, a VERY imperfect market where there is little or no public information on what trades actually get done. People here bash noobs a lot but it is actually very, very difficult for beginners to establish the relative "value" of their beers - noobs are exhorted to "do their research", but how can they? This isn't exactly a stock market where all trades are posted publicly. All you got are the ISO/FT posts and we all know they often have very little to do with reality.

I suspect a lot of beginning traders feel like I felt: in my first trades, what was important to me wasn't winning but _not losing_, if you see the subtle difference. I was more afraid of getting shafted than I was concerned about getting the optimum deal for myself. As a noob, I also did not want to _look_ like a noob (because then nobody would want to trade with me) by either asking for way too much or asking for way too little. Wanting to establish some kind of "value" (or use the word "comparative baseline" if you don't like the word "value") of the goods traded is, in my view, a pretty natural behaviour when you enter a market, ESPECIALLY if that market is based on barter, is secondary, and is to some extent in a legal grey area. I get the sense that many people who bash the '12:ers/'13:ers do so from a position of relative security: regular trade partners, easy or easier access to beers that for some people seem nigh-unattainable, well-filled cellars, proximity to desirable breweries, and above all the experience and knowledge to be able to establish that comparative baseline without having to give it much thought.

Since beer trading is associated with some risks (getting shafted, beer not reaching its destination for whatever reason, customs seizure of international trades etc), trying to get the most out of your trade is to some extent a natural impulse - if you take a risk, you want the reward. It just took me a few trades to realize that the risks are actually quite minor and that most people are not out to shaft you but in fact are often quite generous.

So, in summary, I think that until we get a "beer stock market" where everyone has to post their done trades publicly, we will see a lot of "What is this beer worth?"-type threads here, regardless of what we others would like this forum to be for. There's hardly any other place to ask those questions, annoying though they are.

 

Beer trading takes knowledge. Plain and simple. Some get this knowledge by asking "What is this worth?", which is a little bit like asking "What time is it?" instead of learning to read a clock. Others learn as much as they can about beer in general, so that when it comes time to make a trade they have a better idea of what the playing field is really like. This 2nd group of people has a favorite style of beer (maybe even a favorite example or brewery), reads the Beer Releases section here, knows where to find good beers in their area, and probably even follows beer news sites outside BA. They are more interested in beer than trading.

I still believe strongly that new traders ought to stick to trades with easy-to-find locals. These are beers that a noob ought to know the most about, right? If you trade for other easy-to-find locals, you won't have to worry about "getting shafted." How do you find out what kind of easy-to-trade locals are available? Read the Beer Releases section. Read Beerpulse. Talk to other beer geeks. (Beer geeks LOVE to talk about beer.) Learn. Put some time into it. Be more interested in beer than trading. Become a part of a community. And read this next sentence 2 or 3 times: No matter how the forums look, trading is not just about walez.

 

C'mon now it always was a place to either draw attention to an ISO, or to place a disguised ISO.

Funny, I did put a legit question to the forum here, not looking to make a trade at all, and ended up making one of the best trades I ever made as a result.

 

Used to be that there was some legit argument and discussion in the ISO posts themselves, and veterans routinely weighed in with what and why beers were worth, and there was honesty in reporting completed trades. It was imperfect, of course, and inevitably led to some arguments and butt hurt, of course, but it was, and still is, the only way for anyone to learn anything. Of course we can't do it now, so many thin skinned folks complaining about "threadshitting", but the reality was that the threadshitting folks complained about they mostly complained about because it did what you want to happen, that is, it led to folks being less able to "win" trades, and led to folks calling bullshit to the **** traders, and helped to set fair values by allowing comments with info that was helpful to all. Now there is no mechanism for this, and cannot be, as the trade winner folks will just game any system to phony up values.

 

Well I actually just came to this section to ask a legit question. I'll post it here instead so you people can maybe answer a 13'er? Whatever that is supposed to mean? What is the proper etiquette when someone put up an ISO and we lock down the trade and then they start flaking out. Talking about bottle counts and now not answering me for a few days. When I can see that they have read the conversation?

 

Thanks.

 

I do agree and I did not take this into account properly in my previous post. If you make a "What is this worth?" post, people should be prepared to accept that the expert response may well be "Nowhere near what you think it is, foo'".

 

No shit! I need coffee, because I read that 3 times, and read it the wrong way every time.