Why so many IPAs, so few IPLs?

Yeah, hense me just saying narrowing the gap. Of course, Mahr's isn't aiming for NE IPA... so it's not fair to say that a lager couldn't achieve that result based on that (not that you are saying the opposite). More importantly, I've only had that particular beer via bottle and keg so a thousand curses on you. Whenever I've had imported German gravity casks, the beers are typically in pretty bad shape, but sometimes they still shine regardless. I wouldn't hesitate to order a Mahr's beer in that form.

 

Well, I actually am saying the opposite. From my readings and homebrewing experience the soft/pillowy mouthfeel of the so called 'NE' style IPA is principally due to the 'perma-haze' of the beer. In other words the appearance of those beers and the soft/pillowy appearance go hand in glove. I am not aware of any commercial brewery that has produced a so called 'NE' style IPA and then filtered that beer but I would be willing to bet BIG BUCKS that the resulting beer would not have a soft/pillowy mouthfeel.

I have discussed in the past my theory on the three necessary things need to produce a so called 'NE' style IPA which I will copy below:

"OK, now is time for me the 'theorize' about what it takes to create a beer of the so called 'NE' IPA style. My theory is that three things are needed:

• A protein rich wort. I used 1.5 lbs. of wheat malt in my beer to 'enrich' the protein content but there are other sources of grains to achieve a protein rich wort.
• Lots (and I do mean lots) of hops for late hopping and dry hopping. I solely have experience with Galaxy hops but I have read where Citra and Mosaic 'work' here as well. Maybe Centennial would 'work' too?
• Specific English yeast strains. The two strains that I would suggest are Boddingtons (e.g., WY1318) and Whitbread (WY1098, WLP007, S-04). I have seen the Conan yeast strain mentioned but every can of Heady Topper that I have had was a bit hazy (i.e., not murky/turbid/opaque) so I personally would not suggest the Conan strain for a so called 'NE'IPA"

As you can read above a critical ingredient is certain English ale yeast strains.

I really do not think you can replicate a soft/pillowy mouthfeel akin to the so called 'NE' style IPA using a lager yeast strain. Just my thoughts on this specific topic.

I have been very lucky in that 100% of the time I have had German beers on cask (and this has been many times) those beer were in great shape. The bar or festival that is serving German cask beer really should be taking great care in both ensuring to obtain very fresh product and storing/maintaining it properly both immediately prior and during the time the beer is served.

Cheers!

 

And if Jack's Abby would do a juicy dry-hopped version of their excellent Vienna Keller base beer, we could get a glimpse.

 

But all beer must a priori taste artificial because it is a man made product.

 

Jack, I tried to hit on this briefly in my post. But if pressed I really think yeast selection is more important for lagers than for an ale style that uses a neutral strain. I've tried brewing "mock" lagers over the years, WY1007 being a strain I have used, and the results have never been spectacular, even with sufficient lagering. I would, on the other hand, not hesitate to brew a neutral ale style with a lager yeast.

All of that being said, I still doubt many, including myself, could pick up on the difference in a blind test without knowing the variable.

 

My guess would be no. JA makes great beers if a bit unconventional, but the quality is unmistakable.

 

I can't speak for all Brewers, but the reason I don't brew IPL's is because I don't think they're particularly exciting. I think esters are necessary for a great hoppy beer and the most flavorful lager yeast strains still only produce about 2/3rds the amount of esters as the LEAST flavorful ale strains. I brewed one at Blue Pants that I enjoyed quite a bit, but if I had my choice, I would reach for a Pils over it anytime. As a brewer, I get excited to brew challenging lager styles because I view it as an opportunity to show off (even though most drinkers are more impressed by a double IPA which I find immensely easier to brew). At Tombstone, my favorite beer to drink is our IPA, but by volume I drink much more of our Helles and our dry hopped sour. If I brewed an IPL, it would probably be my least drank beer simply because if I want something hoppy, I've got a well made IPA and if I want something crisp and easy to drink, I've got the Helles. If I want something in between, I've got a pale ale. IMO, it is a style that is somewhat unnecessary. Also, if a brewer makes an IPL and actually lagers it, the time that it takes to lager takes away from the hop head's experience of super fresh hop flavor.

 

Weedy, I can't really argue your point on the excitement scale but do you find the difference between an IPL and an IPA notable? In particular the aspects of clean and crisp? Needless to say it can be argued whether achieving these features are worth the effort but you can notice the difference, can't you?

Cheers!

 

Funny thing about that, man makes wort...

 

...of course, on the other hand perhaps, you just drank too much in college.

 

I think that the answer is yes it is very noticeable. But that can easily be taken out of context without explanation. For example, using American Ale Yeast vs Munich Lager Yeast vs London Ale III, the differences are huge, but the difference between the American Ale Yeast and Munich Lager yeast is much less than the difference between Munich Lager and London Ale III.

 

mmmmm...Schwarzbier. #wrongthread