Hi all. Have created a wonderful Biere de Garde with this yeast. Really delightful. The only thing I'm getting that I don;t like is a low ethyl acetate heat. It disguises itself well enough with the phenols and isoamyl acetates but it's there and I got to wondering why. It must be the Brett. Right? I oxygenated this like any other (stir plate for the starter and then a blast of oxygen pre pitch) Perhaps the two strains have an overlap time whereby the initial Sacc strain hasn't quite used up as much oxygen as necessary before the Brett got hold of some? It's the only thing I can think of, having regard to my process, which exhibited no faults. All thoughts and advice welcome Cheers.
Hi Nero. Pitched at 66 then raised to 68.5 until gravity readings confirmed primary finished. Then transferred to keg and let sit at room temp (approx 70) for a week before crash and carb. Possible some carbonation took place in that week as sealed keg under pressure and Brett poss. still active. Pressure related problem? OG was 1.060. What are you thinking? I can't think if it's a fault in process or just a quality of this yeast product. The only thing I want to rule out is poss too much oxygen in primary. Many thanks in advance.
What I was thinking was high fermentation temp. and/or coupled with a high gravity but neither of those seem to be the case. I would rule out too much oxygen because the yeast needs it to grow and whatever's not used is just scrubbed out with the CO2 that's produced later on. I'm thinking now that you just rushed it. Brettanomyces takes a lot longer to work and finish than many other yeasts, and your secondary was only a week, and sealed. It probably needed another week at least, if not more. And if it makes you feel better, I just did the same thing and ended up with too much sulphur. I was able to scrub most of it out but I ended up having to dry hop a beer that I hadn't intended to because of it. I just goofed, probably like you, thinking it was done based on gravity and sealed it up and crashed it. Well, lesson learned. Good luck!
I'm sure you're right. In this instance I didn't want to age the beer too much as I didn't want funk but for the Brett to contribute it's share of fruit and then some dryness to the finish, which it has just with this slight heat. I suppose, if you're right as i suspect you are, that there seems to be a trade off between diminished funk and the possible production of these solventy flavours? Will try the same process with a different mixed strain and see what I get! Stay well sir!
I would definitely let it sit longer. Think of it this way (vet oversimplified)... Sach does it’s job typically in a week and then needs at least another week to clean up fermentation byproducts to produce a “mature” beer. Brettanomyces works slow and continues to metabolize complex sugar molecules for weeks afterwards and also creates byproducts in the meantime. Without a few months of maturation, it is likely that you will have some lingering byproducts from the brett unmetabolized. I would try to let it sit at least 6-8 weeks on your next go. Good luck!
If you are getting increased ethyl acetate production in a beer this young and you pitched in the mid-60s and fermented in the high-60s, I'd expect that you're problem is the low temperature, which impedes Brett growth and elongates the log phase, coupled with oxygen ingress somewhere in your fermentation process. In what type of vessel do you ferment?
4 weeks is my minimum for Brett-included fermentations and 8 weeks is generally the sweet spot. That said, it is doubtful that allowing this beer to mature for longer will clean up the beer, if, in fact, the fault is ethyl acetate and not something else. Regardless, a longer fermentation time would be recommended for a beer like this. @LordRogan, if you want a brett beer that is more estery than funky, there are better ways to accomplish that end.
Hi hi. Fermenting in your standard glass carboy for this one and pretty sure my transfers were as O2 free as can be. Purged keg for secondary on front and back end. It must be time more than anything then. I know Brett needs time but it was my understanding that younger Brett character is fruity, especially in a 100% brett ferm (not that this was of course). Is there no way that oxygenating the starter and wort left enough oxygen such that when Brett started active ferm there was too much oxygen left and it started spitting out solvent flavours? It is VERY subdued but there though also has a pleasant smokiness to it (I'm a BJCP Judge so am extra picky I suppose!) Got another, identical one in primary as we speak so will leave it longer and see if it comes out better. That way we can tick one off the list! Thanks all!
Come to think of it and having just checked my notes, I transferred to secondary (keg) when primary activity still evident. Gravity was adequately low for the style but still dropping slowly. I had wanted to try a form of spunding for a while so we may have found our answer? As an aside, the carbonation is the best I have ever achieved. My visiting french in laws (who are wine drinkers 4 lyfe) said it was exactly like champagne. Soft, small bubbles so i will certainly repeat this step though with this particular quirk in mind. What do you think? Cheers!
Just be careful, because unless you're using the same culture under the same conditions, you are going to get variable carbonation. Better to just let it ferment to completion and then prime for a higher level of carbonation.
Will be looking forward to an update on this. Something tells me it's not ethyl acetate that you're tasting.
Why don’t you bottle a dozen small Belgian bottles off the keg soon and let those bottles condition for a few months? Taste a bottle once every few weeks after a month from bottling. See if some extra time with the brett still active in the bottle cleans up that character?
@LordRogan, I have brewed a few batches using a Saach/Brett yeast blend from Wyeast; Wyeast 3789 which is a combination of the Orval yeasts: Bastogne Ale yeast and Brett B. I have always conducted long primary fermentation with this yeast blend: about 4 weeks in the primary. I then bottle (i.e., bottle conditioning) and it has been my consistent experience that these beers have excellent beer stability. I drank a previous batch over a period of a couple of years. My most recent batch was bottled on 1/5/17 and at over a year of age those beers are still drinking beautifully. I would encourage you to drink your bottled beers over an extended timeframe. Cheers!
Update! I have been sick with a stomach flu (kids are disgusting vectors but we love them) so haven't drunk the aforementioned bretty beer for a week or so. Upon coming back to a well earned draught from the kegerator, I can inform you all that the "solventy" note has gone. Well, not so much gone as, changed. The flavor has moved away from the smoky phenolic region, to a very dry almost red wine character with hints of oak!? (no wood was used in the making of this brew). So a bit strange but testament to your hints that time may indeed heal all wounds. On a related note, the yeast that was washed, "startered" and re-pitched into an ESB has finished primary at 0.996, so that's fun! OG of 1.057 giving me 7.9% and not quite within style guidelines but hopefully delicious. Stay well and cheers.
There's a decent amount of overlap in the sensory evaluation of thiols/mercaptans and phenols. The former changes rather quickly. The latter . . . not so much. Well . . . most wounds. IMO, it's definitely worth giving a beer a chance to turn around rather than just dumping it. I mean, what's a couple more weeks, right?
Yes indeed! If I could bottle patience, I should be rather well off I imagine! Interested in my apparent ESB attenuation of 107%. Must be a fault in the readings somewhere though I regularly calibrate my refractometer and adjust for alcohol. Regardless, attenuation this high would indicate an infection (though I have yet to have one (touch wood)). Brett/sach tag team is potentially capable of higher than ave attenuation but the proof will be in the drinking. More updates to come it seems!
