Haven't really found a good answer to my question just yet, so thought I'd check here to see if anyone has dealt with this yet. I created a starter for WLP677 using DME at 1/2 cup DME per 1200mL (I didn't check gravity...hindsight, should have done this). Total volume is 2000mL *Brought the starter down to 110F after 12 minute boil *Added the Vial of Lacto (WLP677) *Holding temps between 95F and 105F using a Dash Yogurt Maker *No Stirplate, no intential O2 introduction After 3 days of ZERO activity, I can smell what is a slight apple juice aroma, but the taste and smell have no sourness at all. There is no bubbling of any kind and I don't think there is ANYTHING going on with it. I have since: *Dropped temps to room temp and then brought back up to see if it takes off *Gently 'Shaken/Stirred' the mixture to see if it takes off I am now at day 5 and still nothing...smell is just a slight apple-like aromoa...no real tangy/sour quality. Temps still holding between 95-105. I'm curious if anyone has seen this and still had a successful starter or knows what I should do next. Should I take a gravity reading now to see if there has been any sign of movement (even though I don't have an initial reading, I'd imagine I'd know if there was something going after testing). Should I toss the starter and work from scratch? Use Apple Juice? Or is there a chance this is either working and I just don't realize it or that it is salvageable by adding another vial or some apple juice to it (don't want the gravity to get too high, though). Hoping to brew this weekend, so definitely will need to start over ASAP if that is the route. Thoughts?
I've never used that stuff before. That said, the White Labs website says the optimal fermentation temperature is at 70-75*F. So why are you pitching it at just under boiling? And holding it between 95 & 105? Sorry, I really no nothing about brewing with lactic acid bacteria. But my immediate first guess here is that your temps are too high. But again, I have zero experience in this arena.
Lacto can lose viability very quickly. When was the culture produced? I'd get new Lacto, I've never had great results with 677. It has had plenty of activity (CO2 production) but almost no lactic acid production. I‘m hoping to play around with the new L. brevis strains being released by both Wyeast and White Labs. I’ve found a touch of yeast nutrient is a good idea when using juice. DME should be fine, I got 75% attenuation from 677 alone in a Berliner. Lacto grows quickest at ~115F, so holding it warm should have helped. Stir-plate isn’t necessary, but has been shown to increase growth for some strains.
I just made a 2L Lacto starter from 4 oz grain. Let the flask sit 7 days in crockpot at 115. Pitched it two days ago with US-05 to a Gose. My starter didn't smell like much except cooked corn, but I could tell there was considerable acid production & was right (upon tasting a sample). In hindsight I should have done pH reading on the starter but.. eh, shoulda woulda coulda. I wouldn't stress. If you have the capability, maybe take pH readings on consecutive days.
The starter probably won't taste sour since your goal is to multiply the cell count. We've had luck with a starter comprised of DME plus lactose and a vial of WLP677, held overnight at 115deg on a stir-plate. If you take a look at the solution before and after under a microscope, you'll see a drastic difference in cell count. Most likely, the starter should appear cloudy in the morning, but won't have a sour taste (recall that the vial of WLP677 itself doesn't have a sour taste, either). With a good starter and an electric brew system, you can kettle sour your wort in 24-36 hours. I can't say what the ideal temp/pitch rate is since we haven't tried enough experiments, but a 500ml starter of WLP677 created as stated above was able to drop the pH of the wort by about 2.0 over 20 hours when held at 110 and circulated in the pump in the kettle. That produced a mild and pleasant sourness, but we'll experiment with a longer time soon to try to give it a lower pH. Note that when pitched post-boil in the fermenter, this lacto can take a while to produce a good amount of sour flavor (2-3 months).
