Wort Temperature and Oxygen Solubility

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by minderbender, Mar 7, 2017.

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  1. minderbender

    minderbender Initiate (0) Jan 18, 2009 New York

    I just had a random thought. Let's say you're trying to get plenty of oxygen into the wort before pitching your yeast. It's commonly understood that you can get decent oxygenation by shaking the fermenter and/or splashing the wort, and you can get good (and even excessive) oxygenation by bubbling pure O2 through the wort.

    But so my question is, how helpful would it be to cool the wort down more than usual, so as to increase oxygen solubility? If you normally cool to 65°F, shake, and then pitch your yeast, would you get more dissolved oxygen by cooling to 55°F before shaking and pitching? How much difference in solubility is there over that range? I would look this up myself, but I don't trust myself not to miss something important (for instance, is wort meaningfully different from pure water in terms of oxygen solubility?).

    I assume if you have an O2 system it's not a big deal, since you can pretty quickly get the O2 to whatever level you desire. But actually, even then it seems as though it would be helpful for the oxygen to be more soluble.

    Any thoughts?

    Edited to add: This is also relevant in the other direction—sometimes I pitch at like 95°F, for instance when I'm using Yeast Bay Sigmund's Voss, and it would be helpful to know how much oxygen solubility is compromised at that temperature.
     
    #1 minderbender, Mar 7, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2017
  2. Elvis_on_Bass

    Elvis_on_Bass Crusader (453) Jul 25, 2016 New York

    The difference is going to be negligible, it is true that solubility increases at lower temperatures but at only 10 Fahrenheit I don't know that you would actually be able to measure it. What would you do after getting the oxygen in at 55 degrees? If this is your pitching temperature then the extra effort would gain you a slight amount. Probably won't make a difference to the yeast though and I don't think that you would realize any results other than typical. Wort is different for a few reasons over water, but you are probably safe to assume relative reductions in this range.
     
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  3. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Yes, colder wort can absorb more oxygen.

    You can go to the below link and download a PDF which contains a chart/graph of the solubility of oxygen in wort (12 °P). For example:

    · 10 °C (50 °F): 9.3 O2

    · 15 °C (59 °F): 8.3 O2

    · 20 °C (68 °F): 7.4 O2

    I am a little bit leery about the specific values since it is my understanding that when using pure oxygen the values of oxygen solubility exceed the values listed above but I think the trend is correct.

    Maybe the specific data of the chart/graph is for the case of aeration using air and an aquarium stone? Or shaking/stirring?

    Would you pitch your yeast at 55 °F?

    Cheers!

    http://discussions.probrewer.com/showthread.php?6076-Dissolved-oxygen-table
     
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  4. minderbender

    minderbender Initiate (0) Jan 18, 2009 New York

    Thanks Jack, that is helpful.

    Your point about the solubility numbers actually made me realize I had not written my question very precisely. To clarify my question a little, I am curious about the rate at which oxygen dissolves into the wort. I'm not actually concerned with the maximum amount of oxygen that can be dissolved in the wort (my understanding is that this would almost always be more oxygen than the brewer would want), but rather the rate at which the oxygen enters solution. My unstated assumption was that the rate at which oxygen enters solution is a positive function of the maximum oxygen that could be dissolved—I don't know how safe an assumption this is, but it seems plausible. So in other words, my assumption is that oxygen dissolves (at least somewhat) faster in 55°F wort than in 65°F wort, even if neither solution is near the saturation point.

    But even if this assumption is sound, the question is not just whether temperature is a factor, but whether it is a non-negligible factor, and the numbers I'm seeing seem to indicate that the answer is "no" over the 55-65 range. So maybe it's not worth much more thought. (Although the difference between 60°F and 95°F looks as though it may be worth thinking about, for those of us who are playing around with kveik. Maybe a little extra effort at oxygenation is called for at 95°F, assuming the same amount of dissolved oxygen is desired.)

    But to answer your question, I think I would pitch ale yeast at 55°F without much hesitation. In my experience the wort will warm up pretty fast from that temperature, especially once the yeast get going. That said, there is a Brulosophy experiment that suggests the pitch temperature matters, but with ambiguous results for beer quality. (As always, take Brulosophy for what it is worth.)
     
  5. wspscott

    wspscott Pooh-Bah (1,958) May 25, 2006 Kentucky
    Pooh-Bah

  6. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Is that a pun!?!:astonished:

    Cheers!
     
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  7. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,635) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    The amount goes down with increasing temperature, boiling wort has 0.

    How do measure the DO? With a DO meter. Those cost about $200 for starter meter, and it goes up from there. That is one purchase I have not made.
     
  8. wspscott

    wspscott Pooh-Bah (1,958) May 25, 2006 Kentucky
    Pooh-Bah

    I wish I was that clever :slight_smile:
     
  9. Elvis_on_Bass

    Elvis_on_Bass Crusader (453) Jul 25, 2016 New York

    I am a chemical engineer (not sure why I needed to qualify that?) Mass transfer is a function of the concentration gradient, in the lower temperature the maximum concentration is going to be higher, so you will have a little more initial driving force. Essentially, the rate at which you transfer oxygen will be slightly higher initially at the lower temperatures but the rate will slow as you approach your maximum asymptotically. 0-1 ppm will be faster in the colder case, each additional ppm will be magnitudes slower to the next ppm (in both cases). You will get to the 8ppm faster in your example, but it's likely only measurable in seconds.

    I hope that answers what you were asking?
     
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