would a poor crush lead to a major decrease in mash efficiency?

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by ghostinthemachine, Mar 7, 2016.

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  1. ghostinthemachine

    ghostinthemachine Initiate (0) Aug 14, 2015 Louisiana

    And by major I mean exactly 10 gravity points low. I think i forgot to ask my lhbs to double mill my grain.

    Would this cause it to be that far off?
     
  2. wspscott

    wspscott Pooh-Bah (1,958) May 25, 2006 Kentucky
    Pooh-Bah

    yes, it is the first thing that people here ask about when someone complains about a low efficiency. Are you talking about 1055 vs 1065? Then that is very much a crush issue. I think you had switched to RO water, did you use that for this batch?
     
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  3. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Also, did you happen to make a beer with a larger than usual grain bill?
     
  4. ghostinthemachine

    ghostinthemachine Initiate (0) Aug 14, 2015 Louisiana

    @wspscott Yes, 1064 vs 1074 to be exact. I didn't use RO water but I had my tap water tested and I treated it to a 5.2 ph on the mash. The grains looked a little bit bigger than normal. I was worried when I started. ​
    @VikeMan this beer had a couple extra lbs more grain than normal. I lowered my estimated mash eff. by a few points to account for it but was way lower than expected. I may try this exact recipe again and see what happens. I'm not super upset...this will still be a good beer (a ipa instead of a dipa) but I do want to be consistant and be able to know what I'm going to hit. The only thing I can think was different was my crush.
     
  5. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    Yes, my efficiency varied a lot when I had a homebrew shop crush grains. Presumably mill settings vary among shops, and probably from time to time within shops. The variability in my own efficiency seems to have been reigned in some since I got my own mill. It puts the crush in your control, so you can learn through experience what a quality crush looks like.

    FWIW I also have experienced reduced efficiency when I have wheat in the recipe, which I think is because the grain is smaller and huskless - more kernels get through the gap without being crushed. Since 2 row varies in size, perhaps you get some variation due to grain variety too, but I have not consciously linked such an observation to my efficiency.
     
  6. dmtaylor

    dmtaylor Savant (1,149) Dec 30, 2003 Wisconsin

    All of the above. Bigger beer = lower efficiency. Poor crush = potentially terrible efficiency.

    I used about 10% rye malt in my recipe yesterday and neglected to account for the small kernel size, and knowing my gap is wider than it was previously (I opened the gap slightly about 18 months ago to avoid the potentially adverse effect of high 90% efficiency on perception of malt flavor and body in the final beer), so my efficiency turned out 2% lower than normal, resulting in missing my OG target by one point. Oh well.

    I figure gravity points plus brewhouse efficiency to be almost constant. So if your average batch starts at 1.060 and your average efficiency is 75%, then your constant is 60 + 75 = 135. So then if you want to make a 1.074 beer, you would be wise to guess that your efficiency might fall from 75% to 135 - 74 = 61%. In reality it's not quite that bad but it's in the right ballpark -- maybe you should have assumed 65%. The reverse is also true for smaller beers, where efficiency can easily approach 85-90% with a really fine crush. For very small beers you can consider doing no-sparge to hit closer to ~70% efficiency like normal.

    Hope this helps.
     
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  7. telejunkie

    telejunkie Savant (1,107) Sep 14, 2007 Vermont

    A good habit to get into is tasting the spent grain…still some crunch to it? poor crush…still sweet? poor sparge. A good brew should have basically tasteless husks you want to spit out.
     
    utahbeerdude likes this.
  8. dmtaylor

    dmtaylor Savant (1,149) Dec 30, 2003 Wisconsin

    That seems like good advice. For similar reasons, I'll never use spent grains in bread anymore... because it's only husks! When I make beer bread, I do however add crushed malted wheat to the bread. This gives it a lovely sweetish malty crunch... and with no husks! :wink:
     
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  9. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    I agree with this for fly sparging and to a lesser extent for batch. But I do a lot of "no sparge" and am used to some significant sweetness left over in the spent grains. For most styles, I just like the resulting beer better. Or at least I think I do.
     
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  10. Mohican88

    Mohican88 Initiate (0) Jan 20, 2010 Ohio

    My mash efficiency was all over the place and the only thing I could really point to was that people were likely "adjusting" the grain mill at my LHBS. I bought a grain mill about four months ago and my efficiency has been very consistent. Another plus to owning your own grain mill is that you can do malt conditioning and mill at a tighter gap. I won't mill grain any other way now.
     
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  11. MrOH

    MrOH Grand Pooh-Bah (3,995) Jul 5, 2010 Virginia
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    Plus, buying base grains by the sack leads to major savings!
     
    Mohican88 likes this.
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