Wyeast 1318

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by jburke06, Jul 1, 2016.

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  1. jburke06

    jburke06 Initiate (0) Nov 19, 2011 New York

    I'm brewing tomorrow and want to do a starter with wyeast 1318. Do I need to pop it and wait 3 hrs or can I pop it and start the process for the starter? Thanks.
     
  2. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    You don't even have to pop it at all.

    ETA: But how long between now and when you'll pitch the yeast? I would figure 18 hours minimum, and that's with a stir plate. Actually, I would also cold crash, but you definitely don't have time for that.
     
  3. OldBrewer

    OldBrewer Maven (1,385) Jan 13, 2016 Canada (ON)

    If you're brewing in a day, you have no time to do a proper starter. Just pop it and leave it until tomorrow. Then pour it all in your finished wort.

    Preferably, after having popped the Wyeast package and left it overnight, you can also later take some of your wort - a half liter will do (after it has boiled for 10 minutes or so and cooled to room temperature in a bucket of cold water), add the yeast to the sterilized container (e.g. small Mason jar with lid), and shake it vigorously for 20-30 seconds. By the time you have finished boiling and cooling your wort, the yeast will have had some time to work on the small amount of wort, and given it some more vigor.
     
  4. jburke06

    jburke06 Initiate (0) Nov 19, 2011 New York

    @VikeMan I'll probably pitch the yeast between 6-8pm tomorrow (east coast time). Right now the yeast has been in the fridge for the last 3 hrs. So no on waiting 3 hrs? And yes I have a stir plate.
     
  5. jburke06

    jburke06 Initiate (0) Nov 19, 2011 New York

    @OldBrewer I can't do a starter right now. It's 10pm where I'm at now.
     
  6. OldBrewer

    OldBrewer Maven (1,385) Jan 13, 2016 Canada (ON)

    You didn't read my message properly. I mentioned that it's not enough time to do a proper starter. Just pop the bag tonight, add some cooled wort to it tomorrow during your boil, and that will give the yeast a bit of a head start. Even if the 1/2 liter of wort is joined to your yeast for 1/2 - 1 hour, it should help. That's probably the most you can do for your yeast in that short of a time period.
     
    #6 OldBrewer, Jul 1, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2016
  7. jburke06

    jburke06 Initiate (0) Nov 19, 2011 New York

    @OldBrewer so how many days before a brew do you typically start a starter?
     
  8. OldBrewer

    OldBrewer Maven (1,385) Jan 13, 2016 Canada (ON)

    I just made a beer on Tuesday (June 28). I popped the Wyeast package and started making the starter (2 liter starter on a stirplate) on June 23. So I started it 5 days before brew day. So typically, I'll start it about 5 days before brew day. That way, the yeast has time to settle in the fridge, and I can pour off the clear liquid the morning of the brew. I then add a half liter of wort that has been cooled during the boil and let it sit for about an hour or so before adding it to the finished wort. It started bubbling about 2 hours after I added the yeast to the wort, and after 4 hours, it was already bubbling just under 3 times per minute. Seven hours after adding the yeast, it was already bubbling 33 times per minute.

    If you were in a rush, you could do a yeast starter about a day and a half before the brew day. Then you could just add the entire contents of the flask to your beer without ever having put the flask in the fridge. The only problem is that you would slightly alter the profile of your beer with the contents of the flask (2 liters of malt made with DME). Since you have less than a day, you do not have time to do either way. Just use the approach I outlined above.
     
    #8 OldBrewer, Jul 1, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2016
  9. GetMeAnIPA

    GetMeAnIPA Pooh-Bah (2,559) Mar 28, 2009 California
    Pooh-Bah

    You usually want at least 24 hours for a starter that's about usually when it's done growing. I usually do 48 - 72 hours so I can decant sone of the wort.
     
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  10. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    In my experience, most yeast strains can finish in about 18 hours at room temp on a stir plate. Are you considering that OP has a stir plate when you are advising a day and a half?

    ETA: I'm talking about reasonable (efficient) inoculation rates, not (for example) a 3 liter starter started with a single smack pack/vial.
     
  11. OldBrewer

    OldBrewer Maven (1,385) Jan 13, 2016 Canada (ON)

    Yes, it often takes my yeast up to about a day and a half to finish fermenting on the stirplate at room temperature (even two month old yeast). Don't forget that some Wyeast packages may not be that fresh, and we don't know how old the OP's yeast is.
     
  12. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    So, if there was a very low starting cell count, that would (should) lead to a multi-step starter, unless the desired cell count is also fairly low. Again, with reasonable inoculation rates (for example, BrewCipher default parameter rate limits...I consider them reasonable because I set them), my experience is that 18 hours is usually long enough for a single step.

    But if you are saying that (for example) a two month old smack pack in a 1 liter stir plate starter is typically taking a day and a half at room temp, all I can say is that my experience has been very different.
     
  13. PortLargo

    PortLargo Pooh-Bah (1,831) Oct 19, 2012 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    To get a feel for what you have/need with your yeast, try plugging in your OG, quantity, and date in this calculator:
    http://yeastcalculator.com/
     
  14. OldBrewer

    OldBrewer Maven (1,385) Jan 13, 2016 Canada (ON)

    I was referring to a 2-liter starter, and yes, it definitely sometimes takes up to 1-1/2 days to finish fermenting. It likely depends on a lot of personal conditions, such as room temperature (mine is at 70 F, in the southern US it is likely much higher), the amount (1 liter versus 2 liter), the rate of spin, the gravity of the starter, the type of yeast, the amount of head space, etc. I often turn the spin down low during the night when I can't monitor it, as if it is too high it could easily flow over. I also turn it down or off when the foam is up to the top of the flask. So I guess the best advice is somewhere between 18 hours and 36 hours, depending on the condition. But if you're planning ahead before the brew day, it's better to err on the longer time rather than the shorter one.
     
  15. OldBrewer

    OldBrewer Maven (1,385) Jan 13, 2016 Canada (ON)

    That's the very one I've been using for a long time. I think it's the best one around.
     
  16. LarkinW

    LarkinW Initiate (0) Dec 23, 2007 Nebraska

    Making a starter (1000 ml - 1500 ml) the night before and pitching the whole starter during active fermentation is a great option in these cases. I have done this many many times with great success. While you don't propagate as many active cells as you would by letting the starter finish, you really get the yeast ready to go to work.
     
  17. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    This has been said before by others. But I've seen no evidence that there is any overall (universal) advantage, from the perspective of the final beer flavor/aroma/mouthfeel/whatever to pitching yeast that are in the middle of a meal. Yeast are always "ready to go to work" if they are at a suitable temperature. Just add food.

    That said, pitching a non-finished starter will certainly change the effective pitch rate as compared with no starter or with the same starter had it been allowed to finish. Which may be a good thing or a bad thing, depending on the beer and what the brewer wants from it.
     
  18. Dan_K

    Dan_K Pooh-Bah (1,980) Nov 8, 2013 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I've had great success with this method, YMMV. For a brew day on Saturday morning:
    Wednesday evening: boil DME starter to 1.040 gravity, cool, pitch yeast. I stick mine on top of the fridge where it's about 74 degrees.
    Thursday morning: Agitate
    Thursday afternoon: Agitate
    Thursday evening: Agitate
    Friday morning: Agitate
    Friday afternoon: Put in fridge to cold-crash
    Saturday morning: pull from fridge and decant ~90% of the contents (clear beer).
    Swirl the yeast and let it come up to room temp.
     
    runbirddrinkbeer likes this.
  19. OldBrewer

    OldBrewer Maven (1,385) Jan 13, 2016 Canada (ON)

    I suspect that the healthiest yeast will still be in suspension after only being in the fridge for a half day. When you decant, you lose this healthy yeast. I usually let mine settle in the fridge for at least 2 days, often more. Even then, it's still hazy.
     
  20. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Why do you suspect the cells still in suspension would be the healthiest, in comparison to other viable/vital yeast that have simply flocculated?
     
    #20 VikeMan, Jul 1, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2016
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