Yeast Questions

What was the original gravity of your wort?

Cheers!

 

Ah. The instructions that come with a lot of kits are poor. Sometimes they are just outdated. Sometimes, they were already bad when written.

The recommendations on the Mr. Malty site were developed by Jamil Z. He was (arguably) the most successful competition homebrewer ever, and literally wrote the book on Yeast. It's called "Yeast." Even so, I don't take everything Jamil says at face value. But my beers improved a lot when I started making starters using his suggested pitch rates.

 

You pitched more than enough yeast for a 1.045 gravity beer.

You are ‘golden’!

Cheers!

 

This is true if you subscribe to Wyeast's advice that a single pack, regardless of age (or at least up to four months old, which will have less viable cells than a fresh pack), is good for 5 gallons of wort with a gravity up to 1.060. Many do not. I do agree that all other things being equal, OP almost certainly pitched enough yeast to ensure complete attenuation, even pitching just 3/4ths of the pack, unless it was very old or improperly stored.

 

“This is true if you subscribe to Wyeast's advice that a single pack”

I do certainly subscribe to yeast vendor’s advice; Wyeast, White Labs and others. The yeast manufacturer’s best know their products. I have consistently stated that yeast calculators such as the one on the Mr. Malty website are conservative estimators starting with the assumption they make with respect to the needed number of yeast cells per ml (the George Fix assumption) to the estimate of number of viable yeast cells after a given period of time.

I find it fascinating (is that the proper word?) that even on the Mr. Malty website’s FAQ section they explicitly state:

“Q: How much yeast or how big a starter do I need?

You should always know how much yeast you need to pitch for a given batch of beer.

According to both White Labs and Wyeast, a White Labs Pitchable Yeast vial and a Wyeast ACTIVATORTM 125 XL Smack Pack both contain an average of 100 billion cells and are enough to pitch directly into 5 US gallons (18.9 liters) of an ale wort at 1.048 SG (12°P). This is a pitching rate of 5.3 million cells per milliliter, which is close to the pitching rate many professional breweries begin with when starting a new pitch of ale yeast. This rate works well because the health and vitality of fresh laboratory cultured yeast are superior to yeast harvested from normal fermentation. Both companies also concur that higher gravity worts, especially once they exceed a specific gravity of 1.060 (15°P), larger wort volumes, and lager fermentations all require higher pitching rates (or a starter) for optimum results.”

Cheers!

 

While I generally agree that Mr Malty is overly conservative, I dare say that Wyeast et al are too liberal. Your rationale is weak.

Does Coopers best know their products? Then why do they advocate adding simple sugars to their malt cans?
Does Mr. Beer best know their products? Then why do they advocate using bad yeast and topping up with sugars?
Does Brewers' Best best know their products? Then they do they ship products without suggesting refrigeration for their hops & yeast? Why do they suggest a secondary after X days, regardless of gravity?

These suggested processes make adequate (depending on your definition) beer, but not the best beer. Why? Because it costs money to buy more extract, better yeast or make starters.

There are infinite examples of companies not suggesting best practices because ti makes things simpler and cheaper throughout all industries...

 

[quote="JackHorzempa, post: 950298, member: 55094
I find it fascinating (is that the proper word?) that even on the Mr. Malty website’s FAQ section they explicitly state:

“Q: How much yeast or how big a starter do I need?

You should always know how much yeast you need to pitch for a given batch of beer.

According to both White Labs and Wyeast, a White Labs Pitchable Yeast vial and a Wyeast ACTIVATORTM 125 XL Smack Pack both contain an average of 100 billion cells and are enough to pitch directly into 5 US gallons (18.9 liters) of an ale wort at 1.048 SG (12°P). This is a pitching rate of 5.3 million cells per milliliter, which is close to the pitching rate many professional breweries begin with when starting a new pitch of ale yeast. This rate works well because the health and vitality of fresh laboratory cultured yeast are superior to yeast harvested from normal fermentation. Both companies also concur that higher gravity worts, especially once they exceed a specific gravity of 1.060 (15°P), larger wort volumes, and lager fermentations all require higher pitching rates (or a starter) for optimum results.”[/quote]

So is it 1.048? Or is is 1.060? My objection to any starter advice that says 'below this OG you don't need a starter and above it you do' is that it totally ignores the innoculation rate. A four month old package of yeast does not equal a fresh package. If someone wants to believe, perhaps with good reason, that a rate lower than the Mr. Malty recommendation is best, that's fine. But it would still be a rate. Not a binary starter/no starter decision.

I would ask you to answer this question without quoting a manufacturer: Does it make sense to you that one package of yeast of would be contain the ideal amount of cells for every possible amount of sugars (i.e. OGs of 1.030, 1.040, 1.050, 1.060), regardless of the number of cells that are actually still alive in the package?

 

^^^
Wow. I really butchered the english language in that post. I stand by the content though.

 

There aren't too many styles that would benefit from under-pitching...when it comes to yeast...more usually is better.

 

“There aren't too many styles that would benefit from under-pitching” I agree that it is not a best practice to under-pitch. I am of the opinion that if you follow the recommendations provided by the yeast manufacturers (e.g., Wyeast, White Labs, etc.) that you are pitching at the proper rate.

Cheers!

 

I have never brewed a Coopers kit beer. I have never utilized Mr. Beer to make a homebrewed beer. I don’t even know who Brewers’ Best is.

I have used liquid yeasts (Wyeast. White Labs, and others) to make hundreds of batches of beer. I follow the recommendations they provide to good effect.

Cheers!

 

There's a clear distinction between Coopers/Brewers Best/Mr. Beer and two professional labs that do little other than develop yeast for brewing.

 

Even though the number of living cells will be different for every batch (due to age of yeast)? And even though the different gravities of your batches will mean a different number of cells per volume of wort per degree plato? My point is that these manufacturer recommendations are not rates at all.

 

The only way to know how many viable cells you are pitching is to count them with a microscope and hemocytometer. I have never done that, but there are those that do.

 

And yet the yeast manufacturing recommendations do not actually reflect any real recommended pitch rate. To put the overly simple 'single pack into 5 gallons of wort up to 1.060' recommendation into a rate computation, it would look something like...

Unkown number of cells per 5 gallons of wort at unknown gravity. Not a rate at all. It's simply a dumbed down recommendation for consumers.

 

I agree. I also think an estimate is better than ignoring the variable.

 

That was my unsaid point, if you don't count the yeast, an estimate is the best way to go.

 

Wh

What is the distinction? We had a Coopers rep on here a while ago and he adamantly defended their products. Coopers in an LME producer. In the end they are companies trying to please consumers and make money. Simple and decent is easier to sell than complex an (sometimes) better (and sometimes MUCH better)

And if you'd rather I can pick on "good" homebrewing companies like Northern Brewer and Midwest that suggest secondaries when unnecessary, steep unalterable grains & adjuncts, etc...