yeast starter, am i doing this right?

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by corbmoster, Jun 11, 2015.

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  1. corbmoster

    corbmoster Pundit (848) Dec 15, 2014 Texas
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    I'm planning of making a saison extract beer this weekend. OG 1.045 The Wyeast 3711 was made in mid April. A starter is a must, and I have not done this before. I used a starter calculator and want to make sure I have this right. I have a 2 Liter flask and no stir plate (yet), so I'll be doing a shaker method. I figured 0.75 Liter of nutrient solution (extra light DME) in the flask would work best for shaking. I'm not sure what the field "target pitch rate" is, and if that is set correctly. I understand I will have to do this in 2 steps. But, how long should I give each fermentation? 24 hrs?

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  2. corbmoster

    corbmoster Pundit (848) Dec 15, 2014 Texas
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    I see a spot I goofed at the top saying I was using 0.75 of a liquid yeast packet. I changed it to 1, and still got the same results.
     
  3. CurtFromHershey

    CurtFromHershey Initiate (0) Oct 4, 2012 Minnesota

    You want to hit that "grab from above" button to pull in the number of viable cells you have (~45 billion). A 1L starter in a 2L flask should be doable and would eliminate the need for a second step for the starter.
     
  4. corbmoster

    corbmoster Pundit (848) Dec 15, 2014 Texas
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    I did that after changing the value, no change to the results. I just looked at doing a 1L starter, I would still have to do it in 2 steps. If the yeast was not 2 months old, I bet you would be right, and I'd only need to do 1 starter.
     
  5. PortLargo

    PortLargo Pooh-Bah (1,831) Oct 19, 2012 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    A couple of errors that will work in your favor:

    You are pitching a full pack of yeast that is 57 days old . . . enter "liquid pack" of 1.0, this will give you 60 billion yeast to start with. For a saison (ale) use the default target pitch rate of 0.75 (millions of cells/ml/degree Plato). Wort volume is what you intend to put in the fermentor, I use 5.25 gallons. This will give you a target of 167 billion cells.

    In part Two: Enter the size of starter that will give you 167B cells with shaking selected. In this case, 1.5L yields 168 billion cells, so you are good to go with a single step. I find 1.5 liters in a 2.0 flask is about the limit, enough headspace for krausen and not difficult to shake . . . if you needed more it would require a second step. Right below this step is the amount of DME required to add to the 1.5 liters (5.4 ounces).

    The yeast will probably take all of 24 hours, maybe a little longer, and they will tell you when they are finished. You may have a two hour lag time or 8 hours of lag . . . that's a little game the yeasties like to play with brewers. As the yeast grow you will observe considerable foaming (off-gassing) every time you shake, this is good. This is CO2 resulting from yeast cellular respiration. You should also have a very distinct and pleasant aroma. You may have a decent krausen but randomly the little buggers will hide that from you (yeast pranks again). As the yeast reach their final growth you will notice the off-gassing is reduced to where there is finally no foaming when you shake. The yeast are no longer exhaling (growing), they are done. If you use oxygen and yeast nutrient it will speed things up. The more you shake the more you make.

    When done I normally give it another couple of hours to be sure, then chill for 24 hours. Before pitching I pour off the liquid (uninteresting beer) and pour straight into the fermenter. Some brewers insist on pouring it all in the fermenter . . . but I don't do it that way.
     
    #5 PortLargo, Jun 11, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2015
  6. MCBanjoMike

    MCBanjoMike Initiate (0) Aug 7, 2014 Canada (QC)

    Since you don't have a stir plate yet, you don't necessarily need to use a flask. I use an empty 1-gallon water jug for my starters (shaken, no stirred) and it works great. I suggest you put it on a plate in case you get a bit of overflow, my counter top got pretty messy the first times I made starters. Use the simple recipe of 100g DME per litre of starter wort and you should have something just right for commercially-bought yeast.
     
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  7. corbmoster

    corbmoster Pundit (848) Dec 15, 2014 Texas
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    I was under the impression that not so much krausen is formed with starters. I guess I misunderstood.
     
  8. mrjimcat

    mrjimcat Initiate (0) Nov 22, 2002 New York

    I make a 1.2 liter starter in a 2 liter flask and usually dont have a problem with excess krausen. The only time I did have a problem was with the 3068 wheat beer yeast.

    Last weekend I used the fermcap with my starter and had no krausen at all. It was with the 3711 too.
     
  9. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Sometimes it does. I have had starters barely bigger than 1L blow off in a 2L flask. Other times, there's practically nothing, especially with a stirplate constantly re-mixing everything. I'm sure there are a lot of factors.
     
    corbmoster likes this.
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