Yeast Starters

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by jslice1, Mar 3, 2017.

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  1. jslice1

    jslice1 Initiate (0) Mar 3, 2017 Virginia

    Hey guys,

    Ive never used a yeast starter before and I was probably going to try it out on this next batch (will be my 5th). Ive been reading a lot of info on the topic and it seems to be a good practice, but especially important for beers with higher gravitys. Is this true? And what would be the difference between making a yeast starter vs just buying two packets of yeast?
     
  2. minderbender

    minderbender Initiate (0) Jan 18, 2009 New York

    If you are using liquid yeast, a properly made starter increases the cell count while also giving the yeast ideal conditions to prepare for a vigorous fermentation. Also, if you pitch directly into the wort (rather than refrigerating and decanting), the yeast are active when they are added to the wort, which some people feel is helpful. However, bear in mind that this involves adding a lot of starter fluid to your beer, which may not be desirable. This is the reason that I always chill my starters and pour off the extra fluid before pitching the yeast.

    For the purposes of the cell count, there is no difference between a properly made starter and pitching more packets of yeast. However, as noted above, there are other reasons a starter may be desirable. I'll also add that a starter is generally cheaper than an extra liquid yeast package. Note that starters are generally not recommended for dry yeast.

    I would recommend reading up on starters, as it would be easy to mess it up. You want to make sure the starter is an appropriate size and that you have thought about how to get oxygen into the starter. And it goes without saying that proper sanitization procedures are very important in this process.
     
  3. billandsuz

    billandsuz Pooh-Bah (2,097) Sep 1, 2004 New York
    Pooh-Bah

    Absolutely. Increasing the amount of viable cells pitched into your wort will make a noticeable difference to your beer. For high ABV beers a starter is pretty much a requirement. Proper cell count of quality yeast cells along with oxygen is something every serious brewer considers and it should be a routine part of your brewing.

    For your typical beer at or below around 1050 , you may opt to skip the starter. But oxygen with an air stone or pure O2 is still required.

    Or skip the process entirely. You may be satisfied with your beer, and plenty of us were content for many years, decades, without using a starter or oxygen. Or liquid yeast for that matter.


    Now, for dry yeast...
    You don't make a starter with dry yeast. The yeast are packaged with oxygen reserves and ready to go. Dry yeast will take off quicker than liquid yeast. Making a starter with dry yeast actually brings the yeast back to a previous phase and is not beneficial.

    If you need more cells pitch another package.
    Dry yeast does benefit from oxygenation, even though the cells prepared with oxygen reserve.

    And proof your yeast. Some disagree, but don't listen to @mikehartigan
    Cheers.
     
  4. jslice1

    jslice1 Initiate (0) Mar 3, 2017 Virginia

    So does all liquid yeast need a starter then? And would you recommend dry yeast for all beers below 1050?

    What would be an instance when you would need more cells and how would you know?
     
  5. minderbender

    minderbender Initiate (0) Jan 18, 2009 New York

    No, liquid yeast only needs a starter if the gravity is above a certain point. Different brewers will draw the line in different places, but @billandsuz cited a pretty normal cutoff of around 5 gallons of 1.050 wort. Below that, many brewers would feel comfortable directly pitching the yeast into the beer. Above that, many brewers would make a starter. It is somewhat style dependent, since it is believed that under-pitching some yeasts enhances their ester production.

    I would recommend dry yeast in a variety of circumstances, but actually I think it's especially useful for high gravity beers. That said, I wouldn't shy away from using it in a low-gravity beer.

    Here is a starting place for thinking about cell count. Others may be able to recommend some additional information sources.
     
    billandsuz likes this.
  6. jslice1

    jslice1 Initiate (0) Mar 3, 2017 Virginia

    Thanks, there are so many different opinions for various homebrew processes that its hard to find a starting point. lots of trial and error i guess...

    So lets say i am making a high gravity beer... I could either make a yeast start or use multiple packets of dry yeast?
     
  7. billandsuz

    billandsuz Pooh-Bah (2,097) Sep 1, 2004 New York
    Pooh-Bah

    No, not always. If it is a fresh package your good. What is fresh? Depends. Yeast that have been packaged for a while are not in great shape. And we rely on microbiologists to tell us when enough yeast are viable. Generally.

    I say 1050. Could be 1045. I'm not saying I make a starter every time, even at 1060. But I want to. Wyeast says they are good for 5g at 1060. I trust them. Other pitch calculator are more conservative.


    You know by counting cells! About 6,000,000 cells per milliliter. So start counting now.
    High ABV beer and lagers need more cells. When in doubt you need more yeast cells. Always.

    But don't let it ruin your brew day.
    Cheers.
     
  8. billandsuz

    billandsuz Pooh-Bah (2,097) Sep 1, 2004 New York
    Pooh-Bah

    Yes.
    In fact, with modern dry yeast, you can make very good beer. Lagers maybe not so much but still not a sin.

    Safale US-05? That is your best friend ever. 2 packages of that magic dust and you wont have to worry about your yeast. Keep some in your fridge at all times. You'll use it.
    Cheers.
     
  9. Jaguar10301

    Jaguar10301 Crusader (423) Mar 1, 2010 Maine

    Yeah it's not something to overly stress. If you make a big beer, make a starter. I'm often keeping yeast going for strains I use a lot so I may or may not make a starter depending on how old it is. I've pitched a yeast packet directly in many beers and made great beer.

    RDWHAH

    Edit: Oh yeah I've never used dry yeast. Smaller selection and my local shops just never carried it.
     
  10. jslice1

    jslice1 Initiate (0) Mar 3, 2017 Virginia

    Thanks for all the advice!
     
  11. Supergenious

    Supergenious Maven (1,273) May 9, 2011 Michigan

  12. PortLargo

    PortLargo Pooh-Bah (1,831) Oct 19, 2012 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    Measure your yeast just like you measure grain or hops ... use a calculator. I'm fond of yeastcalculator.com, or Brewers Friend or Brewcipher. Purpose of starter is for yeast health and proper cell count. If you understand these two articles you've got it made. You want to get a feel for pitch-rate and be aware what aging does to vitality ... the calc does all the heavy lifting. As stated, keep a spare US05 in the fridge just in case.
     
  13. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

  14. mikehartigan

    mikehartigan Maven (1,421) Apr 9, 2007 Illinois

    I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure nobody proofs dry yeast for beer. The whole point of rehydrating is to keep sugar out of the cells, thus, proofing is more damaging to the yeast than making a starter, in this context.
     
  15. Ten_SeventySix_Brewhouse

    Ten_SeventySix_Brewhouse Zealot (744) Jul 20, 2016 Indiana

    This.

    Do not "proof" your dry yeast. Liquid yeast will prove itself when you make a starter.
     
  16. jslice1

    jslice1 Initiate (0) Mar 3, 2017 Virginia

    So when you say "dont proof your yeast," do you mean dont rehydrate the yeast or dont rehydrate while adding some wort or DME before pitching it?
     
  17. Ten_SeventySix_Brewhouse

    Ten_SeventySix_Brewhouse Zealot (744) Jul 20, 2016 Indiana

    DO rehydrate in plain water. DO NOT rehydrate in wort or add sugar/DME after rehyrating.

    In baking, after rehydrating yeast, it's usually proofed by adding a small amount of table sugar. Some people do that with brewer's yeast as well, but @mikehartigan has explained the dangers of that. Wort/DME has the same effect as sugar water. Think about it: What's the difference between rehydrating in warm wort, or pitching directly into your warm wort?
     
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  18. billandsuz

    billandsuz Pooh-Bah (2,097) Sep 1, 2004 New York
    Pooh-Bah

    Yeah, I meant to say rehydrate.

    I stated earlier, don't make a starter with dry yeast.
    But DO rehydrate.
     
  19. mikehartigan

    mikehartigan Maven (1,421) Apr 9, 2007 Illinois

    After I typed my reply, I realized that's probably what you meant.
    The temptation is strong, but I'm not inclined to engage in that debate, yet again! :wink:
     
    billandsuz likes this.
  20. corbmoster

    corbmoster Pundit (848) Dec 15, 2014 Texas
    Trader

    For What It's Worth: If you don't have Oxygen, and a 0.5 micron stone, I would think that would be a better investment than a stir plate. Just my subjective opinion. If you didn't have $ for both, I'd suggest the O2, regulator / adapter, stone, and a 2 liter flask. Then you could make a starter using the shaker method. And have great O2 content for the yeast.
     
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